Dual Extrusion Head: Heat creep discussion thread

What is this wiki article supposed to be pointing at? the link is broken.

Lol. Seems like a cover up! :upside_down_face:

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Huh, there was an article about the wedge solution.

Hola, parce que he podido solucionar/reducir el problema en una SM A350 con recinto bajando 5Ā°c la temperatura de boquillas y activando el fan del recinto para que el aire circulante sea mas fresco.

the difference between left and right extruders is the x module. turns out the module acts like a huge heat sink and absorbs heat. sooner or later the module becomes hot enough to bleed the heat back through the printhead mount and into the dx forcing the left side to be hotter.

Greetings. First, thanks to everyone contributing to the thread. You have saved many of us hours of experiments leading to dead ends. I also wanted to to share that I have also been experiencing heat creep, and thanks to the various discussions I have been able to develop a workaround.

I have been experimenting with retraction, but found no correlation between clogs and retraction settings.

For me what worked is printing with the cover open, print temp at the bottom end of the material range, and the standby temp at 100 C below the low end of the material range.

Iā€™m am on hour 23 of a 100 hour print (figurine at 0.06 layer height, 60mm/min speed with lots of supports using Snapmaker white PLA and breakaway PLA) and have not clogged. This is my 4th attempt of this particular model after each previous attempt failed within a couple of hours. I kept tweaking and getting further until I decided to try again with the cover open. I donā€™t have clips or any other mods on the machine except for a diamond nozzle on the right side.


Hope this gives folks hope. My hypothesis based on hours of testing is heat creep due to a cooling issue in the print head. I will likely end up taking the cover off completely to eliminate the possibility of issues due to harmonic motion.

Donā€™t give up, and happy printing.

Update: The print, though quality was poor likely due to the use of old wet filament and need for better retraction settings, did not experience heat creep.

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myA350dxfrontplate.stl (239.5 KB)
Screenshot 2023-06-29 at 9.37.57 AM

ive been working on this using plaā€™s. i have a 350 with all the upgrades and an enclosure. this plate will print with the enclosure front door open and no fan.

@Hauke @Flofo1984 @Spark @mswietlicki @Mxbrnr @Spaced @Defoortk @elopan @Mxbrnr @sacapuces @xchrisd @MooseJuice @MikeG2 @takeota @Wellnice @Wyphorn

Please check out the updates on the replacement parts offering plan:

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i thought the v2 beta firmware was needed for higher speeds ?

No and yes. There is some hard coded ā€œspeed limitā€ in the firmware, but it is very high - see here: Speed Limits on SM2?. In that sense you can got very fast with the ā€œoldā€ firmware, and I have been doing 120 mm/s with 3D printing successfully, and also even faster with Laser. The faster you go, the higher the risk of skipped steps they say. Regarding where you look, youā€™ll find ā€œofficialā€ statements from various Snapmaker crew members that range from ā€œnot more than 60 mm/s is recommendedā€ to up to 100 mm/s. With the newer T-version of the linear modules they increased their official statements I think to 120 mm/s - not sure however.

The ā€œnewā€ beta firmware introduces vibration compensation, which will increase print quality at all, incl. higher speeds. However, the computing load on the Controller seems to increase, and as such the risk of skipped steps, as Riskey elaborated in the beta firmware thread, but that was at an early stage and may not hold true for the ā€œfinalā€ vibration compensation firmware.

That said: I often go fast (100-120 mm/s), because Iā€™m impatient, and it works without immediate problems for me, the print quality impact is neglegible. However, my X-axis shows signs of wear, and my Y-axis also - and I am not a high volume printer, I guess my printer has seen perhaps 4-5 kg of filament passing through it, plus perhaps 25 milling jobs and 100 laser jobs or so. When the quick swap kit arrives I plan a complete disassembly of my SM2 and to check what exact kind of wear is there. My gut feeling are the plastic nuts on the lead screw. if thatā€™s the case, Iā€™ll replace them with brass ones like Josef Walter Hausknecht on facebook has done. Can see some of that also here Snapmaker 2 milling kit for the brass nut in the linear axis by gojoetofly - Thingiverse.

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Looking forward to you overhaul notes :slight_smile:

Off to the shed for me. Thanks @mswietlicki . I am going to give that a try. I have five hotends that are all stuck, and after taking them apart I can see virtually zero thermo paste.

Hi Jade,

I am reporting that last night I was able to install the replacement parts and had my first successful print with the new door and silicone wedges installed.

I am about to start a very large project and will report back with the results.

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The f duck!
Where did you get the stl for it?

I believe I purchased it from Cults3D

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I have printed a 24 hour print, and though it was not successful the issue was the supports not sticking to the bed, not heat creep. It appears the modifications worked. Thanks Jade and Snapmaker staff for resolving the problem (at least for me).

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I did this now, and first I was sure that it was the worn out plastic nuts (hence the deleted post earlier), but turns out this was jumping to conclusions. Looking closer it was the same thing that makes many peopleā€™s print bed see-saw: The bearings got dislodged. I followed these instructions:

And it seems now that the play is gone. remains yet to be verified by a print, but my hopes are high. So for the time being, the plastic nuts are off the hook :slight_smile:

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I like others, have had multiple problems printing with 2 filaments. (Itā€™s complicated.)

  1. The new door design provides significant thermal improvements.
  2. Filament retraction is involved. What makes a significant improvement for me was to lower (adjust) the retraction speed.
  3. Now the major problem appear to be DXM weak filament drive force.
  4. Filament residual buildup also appears to coat the inside of hot-end tube over time. It adds significant filament movement resistance. (It would be good to know the force applied.)

Iā€™ve noticed that the filament wear marks produced by the knurled drive wheels are not even on both sides of the filament. Also, when the filament stops moving, stopping the printout, and putting physical force on the drive pinch lever (just above the hot end) will often cause the filament movement to restart.

I tried the wedges, however they do not provide enough filament force increase.
I ordered the DXM upgrade kit, but have not received it yet.
I am still skepticalā€¦
I think that the filament force should be an adjustment and that alternate knurl drive wheels should be available.

The filament tube buildup can be cured by cleaning the inside of the hot end tube.
Keep in mind, that the cleaning procedure used, can make the filament buildup problem worse over time. Solvents can help, however they need to be tested prior to use and be used with a great deal of caution.

Iā€™m learning moreā€¦ It was suggested that I maybe experiencing hot-end heat creep. I lowered all parameter (print, bed, standby) temperatures. Decreased the nozzle retraction from 16mm to 10mm and dried the PVB and PVA filaments at 50C for 12 hours. Afterwords, I got a successful printout. During the print, I measured the cold-end temp of the hot-end with a FLIR 1 IR camera, which showed the temp never got above 40C. This is below the filament Heat Deflection Temperature. Note, that slowing the filament retraction speed can help reduce the filament buildup inside the hot-end.
I have concluded that these filaments also need to be placed in a dry-box during use in order to minimize the filament absorbed humidity effect on poor adhesion. Note that lowering the print speed also helps increase adhesion.

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How is everyone doing with the dual extruder? Are people having success? Or did we all give up on break away supports?

I broke mine with a giant blob. When I removed the nozzles it damaged the pins in the back. Iā€™m waiting on parts.