What are the rules of thumb with various calibration and 3D print settings in Luban?

Now y’all have done it. You were so helpful last time that I’m back.

Since we figured out my super dumb setup mistake, we’ve been printing fairly consistently. But, unless the recipe instructions include other specs like thickness or infill, which most of them don’t, we’re kind of guessing. Which has mostly been going fairly well, except yesterday I switched from the stock PLA (which actually wasn’t too bad) to some PLA+ from a different manufacturer, and I started printing something slightly bigger. And I’ve run into a few problems–mostly somewhat minor, but still annoying.

  • The previous print was something really small (okay my husband wanted the One Ring but I won’t wear it so he can’t enslave me that’ll show him), and it was set to 50% infill. I knew that was way higher than I wanted the little desk organizer I’m printing, but I couldn’t remember the default so I just dropped it to 25%, which is apparently still too high because it’s been 15 hours and it’s got 9-10 hours to go! What’s a good rule of thumb on infill levels?

  • hubs had set the layer height to .08 which I thought was probably way higher resolution than I needed. So I changed it to .1 but I think that wasn’t enough, either. What’s a good level on that?

*Being PLA+, I upped the temp to 215 start, 210 print, with the bed at 70 (tried the recommended 65 at first, and it wouldn’t adhere, so I bumped it up). That seems okay, though I’m wondering if it might be a little on the too cool side, as I’m getting bits of what can best be described as ‘fluff’ (super fine strings of filament) that slowly build up around the edge of the nozzle.


But I’m also wondering if that might be because the calibration needed to be adjusted up about .05, because I started seeing evidence of too-low calibration in the surface after about 2 layers. Does temp and filament type affect how much space you need when you calibrate, so you’d need to recalibrate/re-level for different materials? We didn’t have noticeable problems with previous prints with the stock PLA.

So right now I’m wondering if I’m doing damage and should just stop the print and make adjustments. If I did this, what adjustments should I make? Up to 220/215 nozzle temp (do any of you find it worth it to adjust the temp in smaller increments?), down to maybe 15-20% infill, bump the calibration up another .05, maybe bump the layer height up to ? 1.2 maybe? Anything else? I really don’t know what I’m doing yet, and I don’t know everything I don’t know!

Hey, I am on my phone, so no links for you, sry :wink:.

If I switch the material or the color, I print a temp tower first to get the best quality and less stringing. - You can get a temp tower gcode in the test section of the 3d print walk through.

Infill, overall I would say, print as many as you need and not 100% because of potential overextruding. If you have a overhang of 45 degree and no top flat platform where you have to bridge, there is no infill needed. - I guess you have to experiment a bit or look some YouTube videos.
20% - 80% are good values, depending on the strength you want the thing to be.

Layer height depends on the quality you want to have. For me most prints with 0.2mm are great, if I want to impress I print with 0.8mm.
Printing thinner layers needs exponential longer to print.
There is a thread about magic number in the forum, which would tell you to print layers which are a multiple of 0.4mm,- layers with 0.8-0.12-0.16-0.20 and so on, are theoretically better to reach from the linear modules (no microstepping needed then, theoretically)

The fluff, I guess it is a overextrusion which builds from layer to layer. Or it means you have stringing, - This issue could be prevented by the right print temperature (temp tower).

Too low first layers would cause hard to disassemble prints from the bed, potential filament grinding what could cause printing in the air.
Generally it is not a huge problem if you print some layers over it to make it unvisible.

Your print looks fine, don’t worry :beers:
Happy new year!

Alas, I have not yet had the impatience drilled from me by waiting so I quit the last job (15 hours of lesson learning, I’ll tell myself) and faffed with some settings and restarted.

Current changes:
Recalibrated and put the z-axis up .05 mm. Is there a way to adjust it just .05 from the CURRENT height, or do you have to re-run the calibration every time and hope it’s actually different?
Upped the starting, printing, and ending temps by 5º C.
Upped the layer height to .12
Lowered the infill density to 18%. There are few to zero angles of any sort in this project, and all under 45º, so I think this will be good. The old project at 25% was DENSE.

Left everything else basically at defaults. One of these days I have to learn what retraction settings are all about. :stuck_out_tongue:

Right now it is about 2/3rds done with the initial layer. My observations thus far:

  1. It’s significantly faster.
  2. Thus far, I am getting zero of the ‘fluff.’
  3. Most of the initial layer seems better less of the ‘scraped’ look), but there are weird little spots that look…gummed up. At first, they were only on the edge, so I thought, “oh man the calibration is too low again,” but then I noticed they were only on one side. Then I noticed they stopped after an inch or so I wasn’t sure, THEN they started with no particular pattern in the middle (I marked the areas in the photo)

So…I know it doesn’t matter much with this print. But if there’s anything I get obsessive about, it’s having a really good idea what I’m doing, which then gives me the freedom to more actively choose whether I want quality/price/long time, or quick/cheaper/faster. Yanno? Like, some things I’m going to want to make fancy, others not. I want to know how so I can have the choice. And I love learning the nitty gritty details anyway. :slight_smile:

“gummed up” is often from over extrusion, or partial clogged nozzle.

You will soon graduate to Cura as the slicer instead of luban, at which time you can begin to get a lot more in depth with settings.

There is a “slicer flow calibration” test which I have found to be incredibly effective, but luban doesnt have enough bells and whistles to do it very effectively.

It takes a long time to really get a feel for how to set things for different scenarios, and everything from the particular machine to the type of nozzle to any mods performed to the brand, type and even batch of filament all contribute…

You can, however, bump up the z-offset during a print by swiping, and adjust the offset from there.

i am currently struggling a bit on my own, im having problems with my perimeter layers disconnecting from the infill.

i dont want to increase the flow rate much or i get overextrusion like a b

i guess that leaves a temperature increase, but i dont know why i need to suddenly, it wasnt an issue before…

its the darndest thing - the lines on my skirt are not fused together right, its been doing that for a hot minute but the print quality was so excellent that i didnt worry, but now the material isnt fusing right either…

i am kinda wondering if my z offset is too high a bit now. that could be the case. gona bump it down a hair with that swipe method i just told you about

We did an extrusion calibration last week, and now I’m wondering if I need to re-do it for new filaments. Which would be a bother!

I’ve already downloaded and installed Cura, I just get a bit nervous switching over when I don’t yet fully understand the settings I already have!

After I finish this job, I think I need to do a better clean of the nozzle, as a partially clogged nozzle would seem (to me) to be more likely a cause of the rare and random ‘gumming up’ I’ve seen on this, more than over-extrusion, which I would think would be more consistent. There seems to be less of the gumming on the second layer, which makes me wonder if it finally worked out a partial clog.

I’ve seen people talking about using needles and such to clean out the nozzle, but I’m gonna have to google to make sure I do it right.

I had no idea I could swipe and adjust mid-print! I mean, the smallest is .1 and not .05 like in calibration, but at least I know it’s an option now…

e-step calibration and flow rate are related but are also different. e-step is how much material is fed through the machine, while flow rate is more how much is coming out of the nozzle.

Cura is a lot to absorb, but the sooner you start on trying to use it the better, you can start with the more basic settings then add more complex ones as you go.

you can also assign a z offset with cura.

you should be able to adjust .05 in the swiped adjustment menu, i can anyhow, it lets you choose the factor of adjustment above the arrows.


also, if you change filaments, or even as you use a spool up, the diameter of the material might change a bit, which also is something to accomodate for.

I usually measure out like a big 5’ section in random places and choose the average.

suffice it to say, there are a billion little things youll pick up over time.

i know so much more than i did when i started but honestly im still terrible at it. i have a long way to go. we muddle through together on this forum :slight_smile:

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Oh yeah, by the way

I was just toying with some stuff on my machine and I think i know the issue

So, if you swipe when a print job is not running, you can jog the machine in any direction, and it says Z offset on there, but its not really z-offset, its z-movement. i think they should change that screen a bit because its confusing. this value is not saved for any jobs and is just to move the nozzle.

If you swipe while a print job IS running, you can adjust the actual z-offset. this change will save after the print for the next one as well.

Hey, whats your picture is showing us is a bit too tight level at the “red” spots…- This is caused from the machine bed frame.
Here is a picture to explain my words:

Your first layer is nearly perfect, i would not worry about the bit “fluff”.- The nozzle will overprint it the next layers so it would not be seen anymore.

If you really need to calibrate your machine extremely well, you have to calibrate the bed manually, read this post:

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To cover your original infill density question:

Default infill density in Luban is 15%. This is sufficient for decorative objects, organizers, and other things that are not going to be under heavy mechanical stress. For something that will be under stress, you can up the infill density. The relationship between infill and strength isn’t linear: from what I’ve read it’s rarely worth raising the infill higher than 50%, and you stop getting any measurable benefit at all around 70-80%. If you really need a solid part for some reason, it may be better to up the wall thickness instead of the infill.

If you’re printing parts that need to be strong, also keep in mind that their orientation relative to the bed matters. Prints are more likely to come apart if stressed along the Z-axis.

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I have generated a pair of macros for an 11 x 11 calibration routine with the heated bed on.

You can try this if you like, i cant say with certainty it is ideal at this time there is speculation about the heated bed affecting the sensors but i feel like it would be relatively consistant

First preheat your bed to the temp you want to run at. i need to edit the macro to add a wait for temperature. i have to test a little bit to make sure i put it in the right position but if you preheat before hand this will work for you

Execute Macro 1 (Begin heated 11 x 11 calibration) -

G1029P11 ; Define 11x11 mesh size
G1029A ; Run auto calibration
M140 S60 ;Bed Temperature (adjust as desired)

Then, use jogging from luban to set the z-offset, the display wont prompt you at all, do not move the X or Y at all. You will be able to have finer control via luban than the touch screen for this.

then execute Macro 2 (Finish heated 11 x 11 calibration):

G1029S ; Offset matrix by current Z position
G1029D0 ; Compute interpolations and enable bed leveling
M140 S0 ; Turn off heated bed
G28 ; Return Home

this will preform 121 points of measurement on your bed, heated to the temp you are running at.

ideally we will soon be turning the heater off and on between probes to keep it at temp but disable the heat while probed, but i think it is a good start.

not that this is some magic secret i came up with, i just gathered this info from the forum, but i did this last night and like the results. adjust the value for the heated bed to whatever temp you want in the first macro.

I think for best results youd want to be connected via USB, but i dont see why you couldnt do this over wifi. via usb you can actually watch the probe results and see how different each spot it, its very fascinating!

next time i want to do the calibration im going to sort out the wait for temp and confirm everything holds and then i will present these modifications to the macros.

you could simply add the following to the beginning of the first macro

M140 S60 ;Bed Temperature (adjust as desired)
M190 S60 ;Wait for bed temperature (adjust as desired)

but i want to see if i can figure out a way to only need to enter the temperature value once instead of 3 times.

I think I can see the logic behind the heater affecting the probe, because the heater is not going to be on constantly, its going to be turning on and off to maintain a temperature within a hysteresis. the current flowing through it could affect the sensing height (probably allowing it to sense from higher up). if it was going to be strictly on or strictly off the z offset would be able to compensate universally.

However, its better than nothing without doing a manual calibration.

Meanwhile, brent is working on some updates to the firmware to include an ON OFF for the heated bed during a calibration which is really just freaking awesome. i love this kind of shit.

ya’ll hacking new features and bug fixes into the machine and my contribution is a 3 line macro on par with mIRC scripting to halfass cheat the system and a replacement side plate for the 3dp module with a hole in the side for a wire… :roll_eyes: someday i hope to get more talent.

Edit: The reality is, the machine does NOT hold the temperature during this, the value from the thermistor freezes on luban to give the illustration it does.

The 11 x 11 calibration method is legit, although the z-offset adjustment is a pain, so you can do this whole thing as posted. Pre-heating your bed for about 15 minutes to the temp you want is what you really want to do more than anything.

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I wanted to share a bit more about this.

While it doesnt look perfect, (top corner has some nasty misadhesion (from not being primed yet) and a little bit of over extrusion related stringing where the skirt meets itself (i dont know why simplify3d always makes a little gap there) i wanted to share this skirt arrangement on my print bed after doing the above calibration

No, it isn’t the whole sheet filled to the brim, but its a significant amount of material on there and almost all of it looks like its printing at an appropriate height, something i could never do in the past. im really impressed with the consistancy, which maybe i will redo a standard calibration and rerun this skirting once its done to share a difference!

the bed varies so much that it will be way out of wack but having the pre-heated 11 x 11 calibration grid has had such a positive impact on my build sheet. i can’t wait for this to evolve further!

I also will give it a try. Can you tell me how long the calibration 11x11 lasting?

im not sure maybe 20 minutes or so?

didnt really pay attention.

i should have, but i was distracted by the data on the console

@MooseJuice : that’s very odd, that is not the screen I get at ALL. Are you using snapmaker original or 2.0? The swiped adjustment menu gives me z-offset on the right only and only in .1, 1, and 10mm increments.

If I adjust the z-offset here while printing, it can help if I’m that much off, but adjusting by .05mm (which only seems accessible from the calibration screen) would work better. But it’s kind of moot, because apparently it doesn’t remember the setting later anyway.

So, I did a full manual re-calibration, the one with like 29 points. It was REALLY off, as in, at least a half to a full millimeter difference from the back right corner to the upper left. But as I am apparently crap at estimating the perfect level, this is also kind of useless. From what I’ve read and tried, the proper level is ‘down until there’s a fair amount of resistance, then up .05-.1mm and it’s loose again.’ Or something like that. It is currently running and showing signs of being too low again (scraping), and this is like the 5th time I’ve tried. I actually had it running well last night, but then we swiped out of the Control screen, which for some reason told the system to turn off the heat and ruined everything and I had to start all over. This happened again today, so I’m not doing that again! If I stay in the Control screen it doesn’t do that. If I never go into the Control screen it doesn’t do that. But if I go into the Control screen and then exit, Luban reads that as my manually telling it to set the temp to 0.

Back to calibration and z-offset: because either the platform either isn’t perfectly level or isn’t being detected consistently or correctly, adjusting the z-offset from the Control screen might make it slightly better in one location, but too distant in others. So I’ve come to the conclusion that this is not a good general solution. (Please don’t tell me to recalibrate the proximity sensor. We did that already.)

As to Cura: when I was having so much trouble last night I tried to set up Cura. It never sees my printer on the network, period. Not with the cable, not over wi-fi, not giving it the IP address, NEVER. Bonus, though: after I tried to get that to work and exhausted Google and the forums trying to find a solution, I gave up and went back to Luban, which now didn’t recognize my printer. I had to redo that connection. Which might have reset some of the things we had set before, such as the extrusion calibration.

@xchrisd : thanks for trying. Long past that. I recognize it was too low, but fixing it consistently is an issue, even with detailed manual calibration. And no, your instructions didn’t help with that. As to the fluff: I don’t think you understand the fluff I’m getting. It’s very light and comes loose and builds up around the upper rim of the nozzle and comes loose and floats around the room. It’s not the scraped goobers on top of the print that will be overprint in the next layers.

@ElloryJaye thank you, that was helpful. :slight_smile:

@MooseJuice again (sorry, I’ve been slow and I’m just trying to respond to everything). Do I just run those in Luban as direct code? Or in the Macro section on the right? (By itself?) I’m still trying to get up to speed on this stuff. I haven’t properly coded in years and the last stuff I did was SQL and that’s not very helpful right now. :stuck_out_tongue: Were you using Simplify3D for this, not Cura or Luban?

So, current print issues:

  • Even manual leveling is difficult, as I struggle to get the height right. I think I’m usually a smidge too low. I’m hoping the second layer in the current print is better, as the line height will be less. Right now, though, it looks fine in the back but too low in the front, despite manually calibrating to the best of my ability. I believe I am simply too stupid and incompetent for this.

Fixed print issues:

  • I’m pretty sure I got the right temp this time. I tried to drop it 2 degrees last time and the filaments wouldn’t stick together (maybe I had it too high, I don’t know. Like I said, I’m apparently incredibly stupid.)

Possible print issues:

  • might be under-extruding. Don’t know if the different filament (especially since it’s PLA+ and not the PLA we started with), or if the manual extruder calibration settings were undone when it reset on its own last night. Probably have to recalibrate it. Not up to that at the moment, however.

Definite hardware/software issues:

  • Luban turns the nozzle temp to 0 if you go into and out of the touchpad Control screen when it’s printing.
  • Manual leveling is CRAP
  • Cannot adjust anything in the current calibration. Have to either accept it, use the ‘hammer’ of manual z-offset, or redo the entire thing from scratch.
  • Though it is visible on my network (via my laptop and the router), it is not visible to Cura, at all, ever, so Cura is not an option.

Right now I’m just so incredibly frustrated, feeling stupider than a bag of spanners, and feeling that I wasted a hell of a lot of money on this thing.

So, if you swipe when a print job is not running, you can jog the machine in any direction, and it says Z offset on there, but its not really z-offset, its z-movement. i think they should change that screen a bit because its confusing. this value is not saved for any jobs and is just to move the nozzle.

If you swipe while a print job IS running, you can adjust the actual z-offset. this change will save after the print for the next one as well.

ill make a short video on that, but i cant until my print is finished.

Give me a little time to review everything else you had to say.

You are right at the point things are going to start coming together and then becoming even more complex, hold on to your seat you are in for a wild ride. i am still going through all this chaos too, im just a few weeks ahead than you are.

Another couple of quick comments for you before i start digging into this

  • I also struggle with the z-offset, its not an easy thing to master.

  • You can type those codes from my macro one by one into the console, or generate macros within luban.

  • luban - it sucks. run jobs from the display after sending by wifi or usb. if you really want to, you can wifi connect to fiddle with a job, but you have to watch what luban says its at, while it will say 0 on the bottom part, it doesnt mean it will go to 0, it means that you didnt enter a value (Unless you hit the little send command button)

-Cura is not used to run prints, its used to slice jobs then execute via the luban or snapmaker. the slicing part is what is important, but you will still need luban.

I will break into extra detail here… your list is rather large, but the good news is, everyone has these same frusterations, so i need to kinda sit back for a little bit and digest everything you are asking.

i think i might try to make a short video about a couple of these topics for you in an effort to save the words.

i think maybe i’ll make a couple… there are so many good things to talk about.

Edit: I think since my personal circumstances are where they are, it would be most convenient for me to talk about cura vs luban a bit, so i am going to start a quick video on it… but just know that i am not an expert, this is just how i feel and do things, there are always other ways of doing things.

Hi Mouriana

I know how frusterating this is, its a very steep learning curve.

I have made this video for you to discuss slicing on luban and how cura ties into the equation.

I will continue to work on more information for you.

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I don’t mess with the z-offset (aka z-movement) when not in a job. You’re right, that’s confusing.

But the pic you posted of your touchscreen z-offset controls don’t look anything like mine. I did notice in Luban (long after the print job had been running for a while) that there are some settings to adjust the default options; I will have to try those later.

But whether z-movement (which I have never used) or z-offset is irrelevant. If I understand correctly, that affects the positioning from the board in a universal fashion–e.g., if I do a +.1mm offset change, that lifts the overall height of the nozzle across the entire board, based on where it thinks the board is, which was determined during auto-leveling/calibration.
But one of the things I’ve noticed is that the auto-leveling is all wrong. Not by huge amounts, mind you, but enough that if I adjust the z-offset up, that will be fine in one corner and too high in the opposite corner. So, like what I showed with the red-circled photos, the surface will be delightful a good ways, then scraping into the layer an hour and few inches later. I found that if I then lifted it via z-offset .1mm, I then experienced good surface in some areas, but poor adhesion and other issues in others.
We are now making more rapid plans for an enclosure, as I know it would help with temp stability and airflow. I just wanted it uncovered while I was still trying to suss everything out and occasionally faffing with it.

Currently, it’s running decently, though slowly. The first layer had some scraping issues, but only in spots, so I figured I mucked up the leveling a bit again and I could drop the initial layer height a smidgen, but I’m also thinking I need to do an extrusion calibration with this filament.

Some general questions, just to verify some things I think I’ve learned so far:

  1. Does the heat of the bed make a big difference with calibration? I meant to ask that before since you test for that in your macros, but I forgot.
  2. Is a good general rule with calibration to lower the nozzle until the calibration sheet placed underneath feels friction when you try to slide it, but it doesn’t stick, and then raise it a bit? I’m thinking .1mm is a good amount, but if I need to raise it .5 I will. I’m just a bit paranoid. I honestly think I got mixed up a few times when I was manually calibrating last time and did .05 for the final bump up which was clearly too small.
  3. When I had the temp 2 degrees lower (218 for initial temp), the nozzle was under-extruding like a big dog–there wasn’t enough filament in the lines to even stick to each other, so though they adhered to the bed just fine, when I pulled the mess (just the first layer) off the board it looked like separate threads of spaghetti held together at the ends by the nice outer shell. Bumped it back up to 220 and that problem disappeared. Should I still do an extrusion calibration with this filament?
    @MooseJuice, thank you so much for that video! I will need to watch it tomorrow, but recognizing that Cura is ONLY for slicing clears up a lot for me already! Though it makes some of the tips I’ve seen around confusing, but I guess that when I realize that the gcode sends all sorts of code to the machine (not just patterns of the sliced item), it is a little more clear. Thank you so much for you kind and thorough help!

Normally I’d say maybe just take it slower a bit until you get a feel for this, I hate to overburden you with information that you aren’t ready to absorb when you are still trying to understand what is going on.

Please know - this is not a struggle because you aren’t good. its a struggle because its a difficult skill to master.

with that said… the snapmaker 2 is a challenging machine to start on. i am also just learning about this on one as well.

So what i feel is important to really start to get a grasp on is that the print sheet should be likened to a field - with hills and valleys and boulders and gopher holes on it. it is not flat. but its more than just not level, its got dips and raised areas. every one is going to be a little different. i guess an appropriate term for it should be a plane.

which leads to the first question you asked…

YES - the heat will affect the bed’s flatness. You may think you have a good calibration, but when the bed warms up the plane changes! kind of like if the ground freezes outside how some dirt will raise up on the ground from the ice pushing it up (just to a much smaller scale)

this will tie into the next question you had on proper z offset…

question 2 - yes, feel a little tension, not much - and raise .05 to .1 only. any further is counter productive. you encounter problems due to the bed raising from the heated temperature as well as the number of calibration points on the standard auto calibration.

you have to kind of learn your bed’s topography and where the best place to put objects is…

Now, the key that made me get to the next level was when i started to preheat the bed.

The thing is, the snapmaker will not allow you to run auto calibration while the heated bed is on, and we theorize this is a logical thing because the energy may cause the sensor to see the bed from further away, but the heater isn’t actually running continously as it just runs to maintain the temperature, so some areas it may be currently on and some currently off, which can create its own variance of the plane in terms of the sensor’s perception of it. we are working on addressing this on the forum, and the macros i talked about proceed with the calibration despite the potential for this scenario to occur. Let’s revisit all that later, and just move on what the snapmaker will let you do.

So, what really helped me… honestly it was a game changer… pre-heat the bed at temperature to a little higher than you want to print at. if you want 60, heat to 65 and then wait about 5 minutes. then while the bed is still hot, run the calibration.

this will as described before shut off the heated bed, but the heat is already there, and yes it will cool throughout the duration of the calibration and not be exact, but its a hell of an improvement.

question 3 some filaments need more heat than others, and it may not only be related to temp, but a combination of many settings. you may think something is going on but it ends up being something totally different, but as you fiddle around you will learn to compensate for things (and may not even realize that your compensation is counter productive in another way!) and only experience will help get through all this… that and consulting your friends here!

I will work up some more content - infact i will do the z offset on the fly adjustment vs the z jogging to clear that up, you’ll smack your head when you realize what i was trying to say hehe. my print is underway right now again so it will be a bit

i think ill make a video for calibration and a video for adjustment of offset today

one final little thing - you can open a gcode file and see what it has in notepad.

gcode is every single command the machine will follow, alot of it is in a language called marlin, but some slicers will also present an overview of what the print parameters are at the top. i think maybe looking at one might help shed some light on things.

Take a look at this file for fun. everything with a semicolon is a “comment” which the machine doesnt process but is used for information purposes. everything without is some form of code the machine uses to know what to do. Its all about the slicer! the machine is stupid, it just does what its told - based on the slicer’s instructions. thus, the better the slicer, the better the machine will operate.

bow.gcode (2.8 MB)

this particular gcode file is small enough to post on the forum. nearly all of the code as you will see is G1 which is commanding the modules and toolhead to move and extrude simultaneously to each position for the shape.

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Please view this video about the z offset adjustment

sorry the audio gets a little bad for awhile but i think it will answer some stuff for you.

hope to have more footage soon for you

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