Bad Luban Design, just about blinded me

Snapmaker 2.0
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After a week of getting the 3d printer dialed in, I decided to try the laser today. Nothing to difficult, just manually hooked up comp to SnapMaker A250, brought up Luban and created a simple circle. After generating the g-code and exporting it to the workbench, I saw this at the lower right portion of the screen (reproduced here from the manual).

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Checked the Luban manual online, says that “The Fine-tune Work Origin feature, exclusive to the Laser Module of Snapmaker Original, can be used to fine-tune the work origin.” (Snapmaker Luban 4.0 User Manual – Snapmaker). Shouldn’t be showing up since I have the SnapMaker 2, not the original. I wonder what would happen if I clicked the switch?

No warning or anything, the laser turned on full power and got me right in the eyes. Very poor program design, and yes I can say this as I programmed computers for a living for nearly 20 years.

Good thing I was looking to the left at the computer screen and not at the at the machine or I wouldn’t be seeing anything. As it is, there may be some permanent damage and I’m seriously thinking about contacting a lawyer. For those wondering about the safety glasses, I did not have them on at the time as I was not ready to start the engraving process.

Just wanted to let everyone know NOT to mess with this switch on Luban or you may regret it.

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@gwfami I’m sorry that this happened to you, but I have to ask, what did you expect to happen when you turn on the Laser Power? Also, when working with the laser, you should always be wearing protective gear, and be using some sort of enclosure. There are warnings all over the place in regards to the laser, which you apparently decided to ignore. You might want to chalk it up as a learning experience, one that could have been much worse.

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So… you completely ignored the part where they tell you to wear the glasses at all times while the laser head is attached and the machine has power? And did you even check to make sure you had 2.0 selected as the machine in the settings? If not then that’s your fault that feature showed up. You also contradicted yourself, you first say it got you right in the eyes, then you say you weren’t even looking at it and were looking at the monitor.

You have no right to complain when you intentionally ignored the safety warnings, what happened is your fault, plain and simple.

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In reply to you questions/comments.

" what did you expect to happen when you turn on the Laser Power ?"
I certainly didn’t expect the laser to turn on by clicking this button, as none of the other settings in this part of the program had any immediate affect in on the machine. Especially when the manual says it “is exclusive to the Laser Module of SnapMaker Original”.

“when working with the laser, you should always be wearing protective gear, and be using some sort of enclosure”
Agreed. I have an enclosure, but removed it to install and setup the laser module.

“There are warnings all over the place in regards to the laser,”
There are warnings, but why doesn’t the program give a warning when this button is clicked? A simple “do you want to turn the laser on?” or software confirm isn’t that hard to implement, especially when other parts of the program have all sorts of confirmation buttons.

“which you apparently decided to ignore”
Unless you were watching me the entire time I was working with the laser module, it’s kind a bold statement to make.

"You might want to chalk it up as a learning experience "
To say the least. Just trying to warn others not to do what I did.

"So… you completely ignored the part where they tell you to wear the glasses at all times while the laser head is attached and the machine has power? "
Please provide me with the reference to this in the Luban manual or SnapMaker manual so I can see who “they” are and how exactly this is explained.

“And did you even check to make sure you had 2.0 selected as the machine in the settings?”
Indeed I did, it’s set to the A250 as per the instructions.

“If not then that’s your fault that feature showed up.”
So since I had the machine selected properly, it’s not my fault according to your logic.

“You also contradicted yourself, you first say it got you right in the eyes, then you say you weren’t even looking at it and were looking at the monitor.”
Have you ever heard of peripheral vision? “Right in the eyes” refers to a direct path from the emitter to the eyes, not a reflection from a surface.

“You have no right to complain when you intentionally ignored the safety warnings, what happened is your fault, plain and simple.”
If I did ignore safety warnings, then you are correct. I must also say that as a citizen of the USA I do have the constitutional right to complain about anything whenever and however I want. However, as I did not intentionally ignore any warning, and the manual isn’t clear and the program isn’t designed to prevent unintentional power ups, then it isn’t completely my fault.

Not trying to make any flame wars or anything, but dang, with the kind of money that I spent on the system you would think that the software would be a little better designed. Also, please do not construe anything I’ve said as a personal attack on any member, just a statement of fact regarding the software.

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Wow Artezio, why the personal attack? I’m trying to be honest and factual and warn others, and you are just calling me “dumb” and belittling my experience. Perhaps right in the eyes wasn’t the best phrase, but it was factual, it was a direct beam into my peripheral vision and not a reflection off of a surface. Having worked around lasers since the 1980’s, I’m quite aware of the reflective qualities of surfaces. The complaint is about the software which needs to be improved. As for the “everyone else’s fault but yours” statement, sounds like you’re just trolling.

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@gwfami Never called you dumb, sorry if I came off that way, I was giving a context example. If you’ve been around lasers that long why did you not have your glasses on? Electrical faults can and have happened causing things to activate, it’s just a safety thing that should always be followed, and this happening is a good example why. I also agree that that software bug needs to be fixed, asap. Deleted my comment as it was reactive, I apologize.

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@gwfami I’m going to try and recreate the issue. Does it show up only if directly connected? What Luban are you running 4.0.3?

So as far as I can tell, the feature that is exclusive to the original is not showing up. The “laser power” toggle is not intended for the original exclusively, all it does is turn the laser on and I don’t exactly see the point of being able to do that other than to do a quick test to make sure it’s operational. This part is on Snapmaker because they fail to make it clear or even state at all that the laser will come on, causing a misunderstanding and an idiot like me going off for no reason making myself look like a douche, it really has not been my day :expressionless:

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Here is a screenshot of the Luban Workspace:

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Everything on the left side, which is where this is, has immediate effect, and always has. Luban 4 is for use by both the Snapmaker Original, and the Snapmaker 2.0. The documentation is correct, as there is no “Fine-tune Work Origin feature” being displayed for your Snapmaker 2.0. What is being displayed on the left are the Laser Controls, which are displayed for both Snapmaker products.

As a developer of 20 years, you know that documentation is obsolete the moment that it is published. They performed a major overhaul with the release of Luban 4.0, and not all of the documentation has been updated.

Does the documentation need to be updated? Absolutely.

Does the wording that you are complaining about excuse you for acting irresponsibly?

If you were at a place of business, would you have acted in the same manner?

So, you do agree that you ignored the warnings. There is no “but”, you either followed the directions and warnings exactly as written, or you didn’t. You weighed the risks, and you decided to accept those risks. This is just the facts, nothing more, nothing less.

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I’ll add that with the door sensor open on the snapmaker enclosure the laser power is limited to a visual safe limit of 0.5%, entirely preventing this dangerous thing from occurring.

It is very convenient to not have to worry about laser power, and if the door is open it’s always set a safe level. Makes manual aligning, calibrating, etc. faster and safer.

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Yes I’m running Luban 4.0.3 on a MacBook pro laptop that is directly connected to the printer. I have not yet to be able to connect over wifi so I can’t answer if it shows up when connected using that method.

If you are unable to recreate it, I’ll be happy to do a pictorial step by step to assist.

As for the apology, I appreciate it. Hope today is a better one for you.

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The enclosure that I am using isn’t the $500 SnapMaker enclosure, but a custom one which I built. If you know of a way to hook up the door sensor to a non-SnapMaker enclosure, I would appreciate knowing how to do it.

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I did follow the instructions “exactly as written”, the written instructions do not cover this. I do not admit to ignoring any warnings as there were no warnings regarding this switch.

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Unfortunately there’s no easy way to do it. Here’s a couple options off the top of my head that I wouldn’t actually recommend doing.

Hard way: Use a microcontroller to mimic the communications of the original machine.

Easier way, but still difficult: Attach something to the USB port (like an OctoPrint) that send gcode commands to reduce laser power when the door is open.

Easiest option: modify the toolhead cable to block the laser PWM signal from the main controller when the door is open using a relay or switch triggered by the door. Would require splicing and lengthening the cables.

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Can you please point out where I specifically said that I was solely referring to this switch? Everything discussed is in regards to instructions and warnings in general. Here is the Quick Start Guide:

Here is the Snapmaker 2.0 Laser Engraving and Cutting V1.1.0 manual:

I took another quick look at both, and at the very least you didn’t follow the following instructions:

Laser Safety

  • The Laser Module is a class 4 laser product. You should operate the Laser Module only if you have sufficient knowledge of (i) the physical properties of laser radiation, (ii) Laser Hazard Classes and associated health implications, and (iii) safety measures.
  • This laser product should be used exclusively for recreational purposes.
  • Operate the machine with an enclosure covered and wear the Laser Safety Goggles.
  • Never expose yourself to the laser beam. Proper use and care of the Laser Module are essential to safe operation.
  • Operate the Laser Module in a well-ventilated place or with an air filter. The melting of some materials may release toxic fumes
  • Always unplug the power cord from the electrical outlet before performing maintenance or modifications.
  • Remove any reflective material from the work area underneath the Laser Module, as it can cause scattered radiation. The laser safety goggles block direct, reflected, and scattered laser beams and radiation with the wavelength between 190 and 540 nanometers (nm) and the optical density higher than 6 (OD 6+), from entering your eyes, thus providing protection while you operate with the Laser Module. The lenses might be burned when subjected to high energy laser beams, and if this happens, you must stop using the damaged goggles and use a new pair. Also, due to the qualities of polycarbonate which is used to synthesize the lenses, you should use PH neutral detergent or water to clean them and avoid scraping them

1.3 Safety Measures

  • This laser engraving and cutting machine should only be used by trained operators aged 18 and above.
  • Read the entire manual before use.
  • The small percentage of the population (0.01%) that have blue-yellow color blindness (tritanopia) may struggle to see the laser lights and may not realize that the laser engraving and cutting machine is turned on. Tritanopic users must therefore be particularly careful.
  • Operate the machine wearing the Laser Safety Goggles and other protective equipment such as a mask or using the Enclosure.
  • The Laser Module is a class 4 laser product. You should operate the Laser Module only if you have sufficient knowledge of the physical properties of laser radiation, Laser Hazard Classes and associated health implications, and safety measures.
  • This machine should be used exclusively for recreational purposes.
  • Do not operate the laser while tired or under the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication.
  • Never expose yourself to the laser beam. Proper use and care of the Laser Module are essential to safe operation.
  • Keep children and bystanders away while operating this machine.
  • Do not reach inside the machine or touch the moving parts while the laser engraving and cutting machine is in operation.
  • Do not leave the laser engraving and cutting machine unattended while it is on.
  • Operate the laser engraving and cutting machine in a well-ventilated place or with an air purifier.
  • Remove any reflective material from the work area underneath the Laser Module, as it can cause scattered radiation.
  • Always operate this machine indoors on a solid horizontal table or workbench.
  • Do not expose this machine to rain or wet conditions.
  • Always disconnect the power supply before maintenance or modifications.
  • Turn off the machine immediately if any of the following occurs:
    • Open flames appear.
    • The machine stops unexpectedly.
    • Any damage is incurred to the interior components of the laser engraving and cutting machine.
    • Any unusual light or sound comes from the machine which has never occurred previously.
  • In all EU member states, operation of 5150-5250 MHz is restricted to indoor use only.
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Thank you for your comments. I find it interesting that your screenshot for the lower left side showing the work speed and laser power looks different then the manual and what shows up on my computers, perhaps if you scrolled down I could see the rest. I did read the manual for luban as well as the SnapMaker A250. Both warned not to look at the laser when on. I disagree with your statement regarding the meaning in the documentation for Luban.

“Everything on the left side, which is where this is, has immediate effect, and always has. Luban 4 is for use by both the Snapmaker Original, and the Snapmaker 2.0. The documentation is correct, as there is no “Fine-tune Work Origin feature” being displayed for your Snapmaker 2.0. What is being displayed on the left are the Laser Controls, which are displayed for both Snapmaker products.”

Where does it say in the manual that this has an immediate effect? Why no “confirm” button on something that starts the laser? I saw no effect when the other parameters were changed. It’s always been that way is no excuse.

As a developer of 20 years, I know that we would not have released a product without extensive and intense testing by groups not involved in the coding, and to release a program without the documentation being correct would have resulted in job loss for those involved.

Wording = irresponsibility? It’s more then just the “wording”, its, in my opinion, a significant coding issue and lack of quality control on the code and in the manual. Not quite certain why you are focusing on me and not on the issue with the code and manual.

If you were at a place of business, would you have acted in the same manner?
Yes, I would. Many times I would call out issues with programs and manuals and insist that they be fixed before release. Something with this sort of potential for injury would double that action.

So, you do agree that you ignored the warnings
No, I do not. I followed the directions and warnings exactly as written in both manuals. We all take risks everyday, and we expect directions to minimize those risks.

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Thanks brent113,

I guess I have just been used to open source hardware. Sure would be nice to be able to replace the SnapMaker code with something that would enable more customization and control.

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Were you able to recreate the issue? I used the laser again this morning and found exactly the same issue with Luban.

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and best of all

2 things are very clear:

  1. You are trolling, and solely seeking the attention of others.
  2. You have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.

When I asked, “If you were at a place of business, would you have acted in the same manner?”, I was clearly referring to:

It is obvious that you are in denial, as this answer surely demonstrates that. I’m sorry that you feel that you were wronged, and I’m sorry if you were injured. However, this will definitely happen again if you don’t take responsibility for your mistakes. Best of luck, but I don’t get involved with trolls.

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@gwfami sure was. And it’s not an issue, it’s by design. Lesson of the day, when dealing with something that has potential for damage to machine or self, like every laser machine in existence, and you don’t know what something does, just ask someone.

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I wouldn’t. The Snapmaker is underpriced for its notional capacity and it shows up all over the place, software quality being one of many places where corners have been cut.