Back to printing: Lines

After creating some Laser Projects im Back to 3d printing.

I have follwing problems.
In the first case I think that lines are normal for FDM printers, but i am not sure if they are too strong / out of specification in my case.

I made two prints. The above one is without backlash compensation, and the second one (downside) is with Backlash compensation set to 0.02

Please have a look and share your thoughts:

The second case is that my print bed got some bulges from the form of the object - but i think it has to do with the print temperature of 225 CĀ°. Is it possible to iron this out somehow?

Thanks in advance!

Youā€™re positive thatā€™s a backlash comp of 0.02 and not 0.2? 0.02mm is so small, that would not explain those lines.

Can you grab everything and gently wiggle, make sure thereā€™s absolutely no motion at all? Toolhead, bed, etc. Sometimes a small amount of movement creeps in if the internal module rollers loosen up.

If itā€™s not something mechanical, then it may be related to print speed, acceleration+jerk settings, linear advance, and a whole host of other possible causes.

Were both of those prints the same temperature? The bottom one looks shinier to me, like it was printed at a higher temp. Could just be the lighting.

Hi! Thanks for your answer.
Oh no, I hoped I was done with calibrationā€¦

I checked that backlash is set by
M425 X0.02 Y0.02 Z0.02 F1 S0 ; compensate backlash to mashine specifications

Both prints where done at 225 CĀ° - I found this value via Smart Temperature Tower from thingy.

Outer walls are printed at 20 mm/s, inner walls at 40 mm/s.

I found my linear advance value at K factor 0.07 and limited my acceleration to 750 mm/s. I have no jerk settings configured

I wiggled everything - no motion at all.

You can say ā€œstopā€ whenever you want lmao

The problem Iā€™m having trouble explaining is the consistency of the bottom lines - they are constant for a whole layer. Specifically here, even as it rounds the corner:

In order for this to be explained with software (even firmware) the explanation would have to address what is essentially the machine consistently being wrong, yet also explain the top print, which is hard to do.

What filament are you using? Itā€™s possible the filament diameter is varying and this is all just a coincidence. Could you scale that model down to like 25% or something and print a whole bunch (like 4, doesnā€™t have to finish) with the same exact same settings? Just enough of a print to gauge the lines? Maybe do 4 small samples with backlash off as well? Iā€™d imagine each print wouldnā€™t take more than 10 minutes to be able to tell. Each print needs to be sequential, one after the other. Printing all 4 at once wonā€™t tell anything.

It could be a partial clog, sometimes they do stuff like that.

Whatā€™s weird to me is it got worse over 1 print. Iā€™m curious if itā€™s oscillating back and forth, or constantly bad now. If itā€™s oscillating, could be filament related. If itā€™s constant it could be a clog. If itā€™s better without backlash and worse with backlash consistently with more testing that would be a new finding.

Each was a 17 hour print - iā€™ll try to scale it down and print 4 sequential

The filament is from Amazon Basics. I used a caliper to calibrate, but maybe i should do it again.

Thanks for your input!

Would you mind posting numbers for that filament? At least 20 diameter measurements, at 10 spots, spaced out 3 feet each (30ft total), orthogonal to each other to measure how out of round it is.

Way overkill for good quality filament, but since thatā€™s the question hereā€¦

I donā€™t recall what slicer youā€™re using, but with S3D I would drop the bottom chamfer through the floor to get rid of that, scale it down to roughly 50mm or so, and then use a horizontal expand to correct for the wall thickness so nothing changes thickness-wise. Then have it end slicing at about .5" high or something, since the issues seemed to be present in the first few layers.

That is similar to the problem I haveā€¦ Still didnā€™t figure out what is wrong, checked multiple things, but still no clue! I hope you will be luckier than me @Slynold, to try your solution! :sweat_smile:

Oh my, itā€™s been 2 full weeks since your thread. Your issue is bizarre to me because it seemed more focused on the particular model you printed. This issue looks more randomly distributed. Maybe not, just a guess.

Nah! Do not worry about how long it was! :grin:

I did multiple prints and recalculations since thenā€¦ Checked backlash (now I know what it is), changed filament, nozzle, recalculated e-steps and k-factor, but still nothingā€¦

It is not for that specific model, it is general. I have more photos on the top of that threadā€¦ So this might indeed help! :slightly_smiling_face:

What I didnā€™t check though, now that I am thinking about it, is try a different slicer (in case this is a cura weird issue) and re-build the machine from the beginning! :joy:

In any case, I am still noob, so I might be doing something wrong and donā€™t know what it is, but heyā€¦ What can I do!? :grin:

Nah, we checked that - the gcode I sent you was from Simplify3D

Interesting that itā€™s more general. You could check your filament, or try a different brand?! Grasping at straws here it feels like

True, but it was a bit better! Not entirely perfect, but surely better!

Two thoughts:
Are you printing in an enclosure?
Could it be temperature variance or drafts in the room?

How stable is your stand for your SM?
Could it be ghosting or ringing?

-S

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So here it is - the measuring
I looks like i can trhow away the filament. But Iā€™ll do the other tests, too.

1 1,75 1,75
2 1,74 1,75
3 1,74 1,73
4 1,74 1,73
5 1,76 1,76
6 1,75 1,76
7 1,74 1,74
8 1,75 1,75
9 1,75 1,75
10 1,75 1,75
11 1,74 1,75
12 1,74 1,74
13 1,74 1,74
14 1,74 1,74
15 1,75 1,75

The line that the arrow is pointing to is very similar to my issue, as it really also starts to where the ā€œouterā€ element of the object startsā€¦

Edit: And as I look it closer now, it exists in both printsā€¦ Just the light is not very helpful on the top model.

Those tolerances are actually great, unfortunately I donā€™t think that explains it. Prusament is extremely high quality, tight tolerance, filament - its spec is +/-0.02mm. You are measuring a tolerance of +/-0.02mm. Typical manufacturing tolerance is +/-0.03mm to +/-0.05mm.

Also, the filament is very round, which is good.

Yeah Iā€™m using the enclosure - so i think there is no temp problem.

Instabillity could maybe be a problem. Iā€™ll try to fix the table better to the wall

Okay, good to know that I havenā€™t bought 5 roles of crap :smiley:

I just noticed the lines are not random - this does look like @Linuiā€™s issue also

At least I think that pretty conclusively rules out backlash as the issue.

I agree with @sdj544 - it could be ghosting or ringing, could temporarily lower the acceleration limit to like 250 for a test, maybe reduce junction deviation to 0.01? This can be done on the terminal and you donā€™t have to M500 save it - then you can just reboot to reset it.

Edit:
In the terminal (wifi or USB) or at the start of the gcode file manually or in the Cura starting code.

M204 P250.00
M205 J0.01
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I could try that as wellā€¦ Letā€™s see the results!!

Alright - Iā€™m testing this, too.

At first one small object, then a bigger one. The 4 sequential ones iā€™ll postpone

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