Still can't believe all these layer shifts - RESOLVED as Slicing Issue

Snapmaker 2.0
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I’ve replaced every linear module at least once on my machine. I don’t know what else there is to replace, except for the machine with a different brand at this point.

I havent printed much for months due to frusteration, came back with a cool head to try again… within 4 jobs, this starts happening again…

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I even put these on a small raft, because the ball part had a pretty small flat area and I just wanted to have success ASAP as I wanted the part.

Nothing special about the job…

Just snapmakered.

Been fighting with this for months.

Last time I talk to support, their answer was “use luban instead”.

Well, let me tell you, here is the estimated time to print for luban vs simplify 3d on a similar (not identical, i recreated manually in luban) setup with comparable settings…

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@Edwin

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@MooseJuice I don’t understand why they push so hard to try and say just use Luban, I’m not going to get into why I don’t like Luban. You saw the post where I was helping @Deth with his layer shifting. His turned out to be the controller, the x port on the controller was bad. @ErwinDM was having the same issue but I think his was the port on the printhead. It seems they have a QC issue with the port components.

Are your layer shifts happening on the same axis?

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Ive seen axis shifting issues in both x and y, ive also used 2 different print heads. All thats left is the controller. Or something else altogether, like a ender or something lol.

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Hi MooseJuice
We have both been around this machine for a while. I dont have any of the layer shift problems you have and always had from the first balloons I remember you printing… Having a right job trying to get them to accept their leveling routine is completely wrong but print almost anything better than any printer I have tried.
Only offer I can make is if you send me the raw S3D gcode and I will print it. If it works, it’s not an S3D issue but an issue with your printer. If it doesn’t t print we can have a discussion.

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Support has printed my files, and reviewed them many times. Almost every time, they said they could not reproduce the error.

However, last time - they printed and it did in fact shift for them.

Then basically said oh thats weird, Use luban instead, it will make a nice part.

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So…

I whole heartedly believe there is a fundamental flaw SOMEWHERE in this machine that they don’t know how to fix, that luban somehow has a bandaid for, and are just washing their hands of it.

Feel free to print the file, maybe you’ll have luck or maybe not.

As you’ll find, there’s nothing in the settings to make it seem like I am pushing the limits of the machine and the parts are not particularly difficult to print.

Gcode

Factory File

I’m emailing edwin to ask about a controller. I dont think they will give me one so i am just asking for a price at this point.

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Snapmaker isn’t my only 3D printer. But it is my favorite one. I have an Ultimaker S5 Pro bundle that was gifted to me, even they have issues. I’ve got a Tenlog TL-D3 Pro IDEX (pain in the butt to level) that had a warped heated bed and glass bed out of the box. My S5 took the least amount of calibrating, but with that price tag it dang well better be that way. I’ve also been eyeing the Tronxy X5SA-500 2E Pro, it’s a CoreXY frame and it has a double extruder but only a single nozzle so I am not sure if it’ll do PVA (the whole reason I got the IDEX). I want a Prusa but it’s too dang small for me. They’re coming out with a larger one that is 400x400 but no idea when.

Even with the issues of the Snapmaker, each machine has it’s own problems and it’s an annoying fact of life. I can’t get too many more machines either, or I’ll have to upgrade my electrical lol. My favorite remains the Snapmaker, but I haven’t had anything go wrong other than a failed PSU.

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That is lucky for you. I have several straight up broken linear modules and my 3dp module broke too, but honestly i like it… i want to like it… i just cant even use it half the time and its just aggravating to all hell. i cant even print these little parts which should be like week 1 difficulty.

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Yikes, I do have a slightly bowed heated bed, you can see it. It’s droops in the middle then is higher on the edges, front to back it looks pretty flat but not side to side. But I’ve gone to using a glass bed. They really need to fix the flatness problem, pronto. It has such huge potential, but the current issues it has make it hard to use for a lot of people.

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Right, it has so much potential, but its almost basically still at a prototype phase. Everyone has worked hard to make it better/usable around here and without the community i dont know that there would be very many happy users in the world.

Glass bed was mandatory for me as well, but i did over time learn my bed’s good and bad areas to address where to put parts at.

Its funny that they still havent added the pre-heat routine to the calibration, they flat out admitted that they found that it is a very significant change and were going to do so.

Traveling at the speed of snapmaker.

Once I did the glass bed it was absolutely a game changer though.

I did hear they added pausing for color changes now, which i havent tried as of yet. that is a good step forward, although its difficult to give credit for something that they stripped out of marlin to begin with -0 which brings me back full circle to my theory. something is goofy in the machine someplace so they are trying to compensate with the very odd calibration settings, lack of instruction on proper calibration techniques, and basic functionality to marlin removed altogether.

I hope we keep pushing forward to address whatever the source of the issues are and get the machine in prime shape.

Just look at what brent did with the laser - amazing work.

Open source is important here and they still arent fully invested in it. so we struggle and wait for things to get adressed little by little.

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Agreed. I haven’t tried the color change feature. I’m still on 1.9 firmware and am hesitant to update it because of issues constantly coming up. Not small issues either, issues that actually damage the machine. The new rails are being released shortly, air filter just popped up on the Snapmaker store, unavailable for public purchase still but it’s there.

But the one thing that they haven’t said anything about is a flatter platform and flatter heated bed. The heated bed on my IDEX is quarter of an inch thick aluminum attached to a solid steel quarter inch thick x frame. Looks kind of like the underarmour logo. I don’t see how that little bit of extra weight would affect the Snapmaker, the rails are so much higher in strength and quality than the IDEX. The Snapmaker should easily be able to handle it. The only thing I can see it requiring is a more powerful PSU to heat that up properly.

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the platform was redesigned actually, although i dont think many people have it. I know at least a few mentioned it and it was kind of a big deal at the time.

I inquired to snapmaker about getting one and they kind of dodged me on it, so i suspect its only a bandaid and not a massive improvement. Although they dodged me on my request to get the upgraded 3dp module on order until i pressed it too, and that is a pretty good upgrade vs the original. i do not currently have any addon fan anymore, although i am thinking it may benefit from it.

As for the heater, brent has a heater mod someplace, he used a third party and made a gadget to control it thru the controller. requires 110vac and i think it just uses the controller’s connector to activate a relay to power it, and accomodate the thermostatic sensor.

i would like to look into that, but im kinda wondering if i am going to want to bother anymore.

as i understand you have found an IR sensor for the calibration routine, same story. if i can get anywhere on this shifting thats the first thing im going to look at. i like using the fifix, and works pretty well, but its kind of a hassle.

i am hoping the controller isnt super expensive or particularly hard to get, but at this point im willing to get one if it has been decided to be a source of problems in cases beyond people plugging in things backwards…

its going to be especially difficult to determine if my machine is better because i have found no rhyme or reason to when the machine is going to decide it doesnt like printing a particular part.

i kinda tuned out of here for a hot minute so i am not sure whats on the up and up these days…

with this air cleaner, is it expected to not need to exhaust outdoors? would it be that effective? i have to do some home improvement to add some power to a new spot and set my machine up and etc so i could even run a duct, so i have yet to even try laser or cnc.

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I don’t have any inside information but I presume they insist upon Luban for a few reasons… 1) they “know” it, 2) they can “answer” for what it does/doesn’t do, 3) the ability for “you” to enter adjustments/variances are known to them whereas a non-Luban solution may have entirely different options/settings/variances/human inputs/tolerances, etc., and 4) they may be able to identify a solution in Luban vice any other alternative that they just don’t know or have the experience with. WHY they don’t have a second or third option for which they are conversant, I can say. Were it me, I would at least have one other industry standard if not two just so I can compare what Luban does/doesn’t do in various scenarios. I think “sole” reliance by them upon Luban is short sighted and to some degree, self defeating. Yet if they were to select one or two alternatives I’m sure we would have difficulty agreeing on what that/they should be and there will still be a lot of unhappy campers. Why do I write all this? When in Rome do as the Romans. I they say “use Luban” then try it and see if you can duplicate the problem using Luban… then you have them in your cross hairs to provide an answer. If you don’t use Luban (or say, you substitute a competitor’s step motors, power supply, etc., etc.) you may have to consider they will not have an answer for you. I’m really new to this and I’m partially equally frustrated with Luban. Its possible my “answer” (or proposal you actually use Luban when you have a problem and see if it exists within their “approved” system. But don’t complain to Ford if you installed a Chevy engine and a Toyota transmission in your F-150 and expect answers (is that comparison as good as I think?).

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@jmngld you should look up the Fummy truck. Extremely expensive conversion but hilariously long lasting. Ford body + Cummins engine + Allison (Chevy) transmission. Over a $100k conversion but they last forever.

As for other slicing software, Snapmaker 2.0 is now officially supported in Cura. The profiles are now confirmed by Snapmaker to be completely compatible and no longer breaks the warranty. I think one of your suggestions hit the nail on the head. They press so hard to use Luban because it’s what THEY know and is the fastest way for them to give effective support. And the fact that it has a console for commands.

@MooseJuice about the unevenness of the bed, I got to thinking… maybe there are too many screws mounting the heated bed to the frame and it’s causing a bunch of hills on the bed. Almost all other printers I’ve seen (even ones bigger than the Snapmaker) typically only have 4 screws (sometimes 5, one for the center) one at each corner. I think it would’ve been more feasible if they had created a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) solid platform with the heated bed also 1/4 inch (6.35mm). Or even if they just put a thin bridge of 1/8 inch (3.175mm) solid metal between the arms of the spiderweb frame so there’s no more “holes” in the frames structure that is currently being used, even that may be enough to make the current frame far more rigid, along with proper milling of the nuts on the frame.

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@MooseJuice

I just emailed you back and sent you a test firmware. I doubt that is the tool-port on the controller.

Please keep me updated about this issue.

Edwin

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Hi @MooseJuice
Downloaded you GCODE and chucked it at the printer before going to be last night and this is what I woke up to this morning. Crazy print, must have another go with time laps on.

moosejuice_gopro_gcode
moosejuice_gopro_gcode3024×4032 1.68 MB

Anyway, looked at the model and downloaded what I think you are printing from Thingiverse. Sliced it in Cura using the provided Snapmaker “normal” profile, changed nothing, no supports no raft or skirt. Printed using the original Snapmaker black that I had still lying around and this is what I got. Checked your speeds and nothing seemed excessively fast. Z fast travel is a bit higher than I use but not materially. I dont use Z hop and I think you are. Appart from that I don’t know.

swl_gopro
swl_gopro3024×4032 1.28 MB

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So it duplicated layer shifting on a different machine first try. Yet nothing in the gcode is outside the Snapmaker’s capability, what the heck?

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Who knows? But I do know that I’ve gotten similar results from gcode created with Slic3r. Sometimes it works (I’ve gotten acceptable Benchies, calibration cubes, etc), sometimes it doesn’t, and it seems more likely to work if I print one object at a time. I’m still testing the parameters, but it’s clear that there is a problem, even though my settings aren’t that different from the Luban “Normal Quality” ones. Interestingly, Slic3r also produces gcode with a far lower promised runtime than Luban.

So Cura and its descendants may do something differently that makes them work better with the Snapmaker.

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I had 4 different prints fail the last 1hour or so with something similar. I’ve ran these prints with no issues many times before. Go Figure!

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As a little note, I resliced the parts but eliminated the “Auto” extrusion width in simplify 3d. Which is what i have used since day one many many times sucessfully.

I had a different quantity on the plate, but they came out OK.

So maybe this old argument about “multiples of 4” has something to do with it, and maybe theres something to be addressed in the firmware to compensate for it that was overlooked. I changed it to a straight .4 manual.

Then again, I can print a hundred times and not have a problem, then have problems again. so time will tell…

I’m not sure that being fixed to a stationary line width is as nice as i would like it, but if it works… i guess perhaps it is something i can live without. the other slicers dont have automatic line width outside of cura’s experimental feature (i think?)

what say you? something about geometry and variable line width is causing the machine some confusion eh?

I will continue fiddling around including trying the special firmware update provided. Next time i get a failure that is what Im going to try.

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Just to say I have never had any layer shifting problems ever - until this model. But I have never used Simplify3D,. Cause and effect or just a coincidence?
I don’t use Luban for anything but use Cura or Prusa slicer depending on what I am printing. Prusa is fast and slick, Cura is bloated but does everything I need. I have not tried S3D as being a Scotsman I hate paying for anything when I don’t ned to. :grinning:
Looking at the code the only material difference around layers is you have a Z hop of 0.5mm enabled I think. You also have backlash compensation in your start CGODE. I also have the backlash but not the Z hop. The Z hop though is just an up and back down rather than a simple up.
I wonder what the Firmware Snapmaker is sending you changes. @Edwin didn’t say what it did, There is nothing in GitHub about a new branch. Would be interested in what they are doing to try and fix this.