I don’t blame you for keeping your single extruder up and running for now. I’m just glad I didn’t get over-excited and install it before I finished my last commission or I would have been another level deep in delays. I mean, just look at what they said directly on their store page. I don’t think that the product they advertised is what we got. Hyped up to say the least. They included a picture that demonstrated the quality in which this thing prints. I have never gotten a result like this even after a day of tuning two specific filaments to the print head.
“Meanwhile, the 68-teeth gears with a 12 mm diameter allow for sufficient contact surfaces with the filament they are pulling in, applying steady force so your filament won’t come out of the nozzle all beaten up. So back to the question: what’s the other end of the equation? The answer is flawless extrusion with 20 mm³/s flow rate and high quality results.”
Key here being, “Your filament won’t come out of the nozzle all beaten up.” and " Flawless extrusion… and high quality results." Neither are true, at least so far. This quote does not describe features of the advertised product, but Problems that plague the hardware.
I‘m still waiting for my dual extruder module.
Actually i get an UPS Code, but it says „code created, waiting for package“ (since a few days).
But if i read all this stuff here, i‘m not sure if it was the right decision buying the dual extruder.
I bought the 10W Laser too, works good. Only the cooling/process cleaning could be better.
For me is it the same, some technically problems are „normal“ but shipping the modules while knowing it, bad communication is a no go!
I would not give up that quickly. It i not the first time that the Snapmaker products had teething problems. And while I don’t like it and say that a product of this price better would be good from the start, I still have seen that they somehow fixed their problems, and usually have been forthcoming in the end to those who suffered. Patience however is needed.
This is my first dual color print. Using two colors of Hatchbox PLA. Sliced with PrusaSlicer. I started by making a first attempt to calibrate the E-steps for each extruder. The values were different and different enough to warrant additional work. Check out my toolchange g-code below. All told, I think it is a good first result. I’m going to probably continue to refine the e-steps and flow rate first.
If anyone is interested, here is my current custom G-code in PrusaSlicer. I do think it needs some additional tweaking, so use it at your own risk.
Start G-code:
M82 ;absolute extrusion mode
;Start GCode begin
{if initial_extruder == 0}M92 E672.60081{elsif initial_extruder == 1}M92 E680.07339{endif}
M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ;Start warming Bed
G28 ; home all axes
G90 ;absolute positioning
G1 X-20 Y-10 F3000
G1 Z0 F1800
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ;Wait For Bed Temperature
{if is_extruder_used[0]}M104 S[first_layer_temperature_0] T0 ;Start warming Left Nozzle{endif}
{if is_extruder_used[1]}M104 S[first_layer_temperature_1] T1 ;Start warming Right Nozzle{endif}
; M109 S[first_layer_temperature] ;Wait for Hotend Temperature
{if is_extruder_used[0]}M109 S[first_layer_temperature_0] T0 ;Wait for Left Hotend Temperature{endif}
{if is_extruder_used[1]}M109 S[first_layer_temperature_1] T1 ;Wait for Right Hotend Temperaturee{endif}
; Is T0 Used? [is_extruder_used_0]
; Is T1 Used? [is_extruder_used_1]
{if is_extruder_used[0]} ;This stuff will only get "executed" if left extruder is used
T0
G1 X-25 Y-10 F3000
G92 E0
G1 E20 F200
G92 E0
G1 F2100 E-1{endif}
{if is_extruder_used[1]} ;This stuff will only get "executed" if right extruder is used
T1
G1 X-25 Y-10 F3000
G92 E0
G1 E20 F200
G92 E0
G1 F2100 E-1{endif}
T[initial_extruder] ;Set initial extruder
;LAYER_COUNT:[total_layer_count]
End G-code:
; End GCode begin
; M104 S0 ;extruder heater off
{if is_extruder_used[0]}M104 S0 T0 ;Left Hotend Off{endif}
{if is_extruder_used[1]}M104 S0 T1 ;Right Hotend Off{endif}
M140 S0 ;heated bed heater off
G90 ;absolute positioning
G92 E0
G1 E-2 F300 ;retract the filament a bit before lifting the nozzle, to release some of the pressure
G28 X0 Y0 Z+10; home
M84 ;steppers off
M107 ;fan off
M82 ;absolute extrusion mode
; MAXZ:[max_layer_z]
; End GCode end
The tool change G-code is the key to making it work, I think. It’s what allows you to have different e-steps for each extruder and manually load them with each extruder change.The first M92 is for the left extruder. The second M92 is for the right extruder. The values I used are for my machine. You need to determine your own values.
I know it’s frustrating. I’ve been frustrated too. I still have yet to get breakaway PLA or PVA to work as support material with PS. But, I’m going to continue to work on that. But, at least this shows that it is possible to get pretty good results with the dual extruder.
This looks good.
I like your approach for the start gcode. Have you seen my thread where I’m documenting my first attempts with the DE and Prusaslicer?
It’s interesting that you have different e-step values for the two extruders. Mine have been the same!
Do you really need to heat up both extruders initial when both are used?
I’m thinking of the corner case when you only use the second extruder for later levels.
I’m thinking about a solution to heat up the second extruder only when it is really in use. Furthermore, I do not think I’ll ever do two color prints - I want to use the second extruder with break away filament for support connection points.
Thanks for the link! I’ll definitely check out that thread.
Do you really need to heat up both extruders initial when both are used?
They don’t both heat up because it goes off of the first_layer_temperature. So, I leave it to PrusaSlicer to decide what that temp should be for the first layer.
I’ll make another post with my use of supports.
I actually bought the dual extruder for the same reason as you (supports). But, when I was going through calibration, I found it helpful to have the same material in both sides. That way, I could not only calibrate them, I could compare them and see if one is off compared to the other. That said, I do plan to also make multicolor prints, but I’m going to use a Pallette 3 for that. I have yet to tackle the project of setting it up.
I think you should keep it. Not everyone is having problems like you are reading about here. I have had zero problems with the nozzle dislodging and do not use the clip. But, I do think that having your printer properly calibrated makes a difference. For example, if you are pumping too much filament through and the heating block can’t keep up, I could see that pressure putting undue stress on the nozzle spring.
If you look above at the mushroom print, that was literally my first print using the dual extruder. The steps I took at a high level with the DX:
Had to go through the initial setup using the controller. I was not expecting it to be perfect and I was right.
Calculated the necessary e-steps for each extruder. Took an average of the two and stored that in EEPROM.
Added tool change g-code in PrusaSlicer so that it will use the correct e-steps for each extruder.
Although the DX is supposed to be better about auto-leveling, mine still needed tweaking. I first tweaked the Z offset for the left extruder using M206 until I was happy with the first layer. I ended up using a 0.14 Z-offset.
Then I used M218 to tweak the Z offset of the right nozzle. It was pretty good out of the box and only needed a small adjustment.
That’s all I had to do to make that mushroom print.
My take:
3D printing is very complex. There are so many things that affect printing and quality, I imagine that it’s hard to write code that accounts for every single variable–especially keeping in mind that every manufactured object has a range of tolerances. No object (nozzle, module, heatbrake, PID, thermistor, etc.) is perfect. Because of that, I imagine it’s nigh impossible for firmware to account for all of those things. So, I expect that if I want really high-quality prints, there will always be some amount of calibration required.
I thought it might be helpful to show others my continued progress with the dual extruder. I wanted to show that not everyone is having nothing but failure. I do not use the clips.
I have been working to get PVA supports. At first, it wasn’t working at all. It wasn’t sticking to the bed and seemed to just be a basic mess. But, I have never worked with PVA before (because I never had a dual extruder before).
Using this: https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#flow, I printed a cube in vase mode using the left nozzle in PLA. It printed extremely well. But, when I went to print the same cube with PVA in the right nozzle, there was pretty bad under-extrusion. Once I bumped up the flow rate in PrusaSlicer for PVA, that made the prints usable. I also ended up using some Magigoo on the bed in order to get a little better stick. PVA sticks really well to Magigoo. (I measured my PVA and it was incredibly variable, so I just stuck with a 1.0 multiplier.)
After removing the supports (just needed a bit of a soak in water), this is what I ended up with. I have NEVER had such quality surfaces that have been printed on supports than with this.
That led me to try a more complicated print with a ton of supports. Although I am getting a lot of oozing of PVA, the supports are actually working. I’m already printing at the lowest recommended temp (190º), so I’m concerned about lowering the temp further. I’m going to tweak the config some more to see if I can get even better results. I imagine that the issue is the retraction needs to be increased. But, my current PrusaSlicer profile does work for printing PVA! In this print, the oozing PVA may have had a minimal, but noticeable impact on the PLA surface, so I just need to dial that in some more.
Because of the huge amount of PVA, it is going to take hours of soaking, but this is how it looks at present. I think some of the surface imperfections are actually PVA that has yet to dissolve.
Anyway, I’m very encouraged and happy with the results. I am sure I can dial things in even better, but this is what I bought the dual extruder for. And it works.
My dual extruder finally arrived yesterday. It’s been so long since I ordered but I vaguely remember staying up until midnight so that I could be the first to order when the pre-orders opened.
Now it’s been so long I’m trying to muster interest in opening the box.
Just started my first larger print with the DX - and first layer without much tweaking is already soooo much better than anything I could coax from the SX… If they iron out the teething issues, I guess this will be a very capable print head!
I’m now on firmware 1.15.21, and it still has the bug that after Z-calibration it starts ~0.3 mm too high into the print. In my current print left extruder needed -0.4 mm, right one -0.35 mm manual Z offset to get it right…
Just adding my two cents: I actually really like the dual extruder module. Like @Hauke says, it has potential to be very capable. I’m running the “high speed vibration compensation” beta firmware and I was able to get good results very quickly using PrusaSlicer.
As always with Snapmaker, there are some software quirks that make it not quite plug-and-play, which is a shame given the price, but overall I have to say I really like the module.
Yes, same speeds as the single extruder and no problems at all. I modified my single extruder with a 5015 fan specifically for the higher speeds, but I feel like the dual extruder matches that cooling performance out of the box.
Ok so I finally unboxed it and spent the major part of yesterday setting it up because I had to manually calibrate it for my glass bed.
I must say, as usual (this is such a love-hate relationship at this point!) as usual Snapmaker goes beyond delayed but when it finally arrives it is worth it. It is very well made and works like a charm. I’m making my first print now.
Yea, I’ve had some really good success this weekend since it arrived. I did. need to bump my waste cylinder mm3 up to 25 for the big guy. I’m at 20mm3 now for a helmet and that seems to be working. I had the cylinder popping off the taller it got.
