CNC-advice for a potential buyer

I’ve been looking thorugh a lot of YouTube videos about the Snapmaker 2.0 and I really feel like ordering it. My main use for buying the machine would probably to create wooden reliefs, much like the ones you see in the “CNC carvings” section of https://www.snapmaker.com/community.

The reliefs that are displayed in that section look really nice and detailed, but I’m unsure on whether the Snapmaker 2.0 is really capable of making CNC-carvings so detailed, since I haven’t been able to find any YouTube videos that shows the whole CNC carving process for such a detailed CNC carving.

Does anyone have experience in CNC carving wooden reliefs with the Snapmaker 2.0 that can confirm it’s possible to make something as detailed as in the above link? Anyone want to show off some of the things they made?

If you really want a cnc machine, buy a cnc machine. The SM2 is a 3 in 1 and as such is not as good as any single dedicated machine. If you only want 1 or 2 out of the three functions, you will be much happier buying units designed for those functions

Thanks for the input. Do you have a suggestions on any CNC-machines in the same price-range that performs better than SM2?

Shapeoko from carbide3d is the big name. Their standard size is bigger than the SM2 and costs about 1300 USD without a router. The router will set you back another ~100. They have great forums and support. A previous snapmaker owner switched to them and was very happy. @jepho have anything to add?

Edit:
i forgot to add that they do ship internationally, the person i mentioned above lives in the UK and still decided that was the best machine on the market.

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Thanks a lot for the recommendation :smiley:. I knew I’d get something out of asking here. I’m a bit new to the whole maker space.

And good to hear they ship internationally. I’m located in Denmark.

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I’ll wholeheartedly agree. The Snapmaker machines have a number of problems for dedicated CNC carving.

  1. Rigidity. The Snapmaker frame is really not particularly rigid, particularly the weakly supported Z-axis. Lack of rigidity doesn’t mean it can’t be made to work. What it really means is that the rate of material removal is quite small, which means your carvings will take a long time, certainly in comparison to a beefier machine. Part of this point is that the motor in the CNC head is 50 W, which is quite tiny for a router. It does, however, match the low rigidity of the machine.

  2. Dust collection. Snapmaker provides no system for dust collection. You’ll need one, and you’ll have to build it yourself. Other companies that take the health hazard seriously make this much easier.

  3. Software. The CNC software that Snapmaker provides in Luban is stated as “alpha” quality, and even that is some unwarranted puffery; it’s really awful. You’ll need to build an entire software toolchain yourself to do what you want with the Snapmaker. To be fair, you’ll have to do a lot of that work with any machine, but other machines that are dedicated for carving give you a head start.

  4. Accuracy. Every time you change the work surface you need to reestablish squareness with the axes of the machine. Every time to change the work head you need to tram it so that it’s vertical, and only one of the two dimensions is adjustable. You can tram the X-Z plane but not the Y-Z one.

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Hello Adam… thanks for the notification. I have only just completed everything I needed to. The machine is reputed to take about two hours to build. I think that may be true but I took a bit longer. I was building the machine into a space designed for it because I have so little room. I built a bench to take about 200kg and then built my SO3 standard (16 x 16 x 3 inches work area) on the bench.

I first placed a rubber mat 700 x 900mm on the bench (slightly larger size than the SO3’s footprint by 100mm all around) and the mat was 12mm thick and weighed around 20kgs. The purpose was to reduce resonant frequencies and vibration. Each extrusion of the Shapeoko is constructed from aluminium with 5mm thick walls.

I took about 8 hours to assemble the baseboard, the framework, the X,Y and Z rails and the axis carriages. I left every single fastener loose by about half a turn. The next day was spent applying and tensioning the belts and V wheels and running all of the electrics and fitting the control board.

The final day was spent adding the router, squaring the machine from the base upwards and tightening screws in a crossed furthest apart sequence for every set of screws. I made every screw finger tight, in sequence, then used an allen key in the same sequence and then I added 1/8th of a turn to every screw. Some screws had medium loctite (blue) added at the assembly and tightening stage.

Every parameter for square, flatness and tramming was checked and double checked before all of the screws were finally tightened. The I added the sharpie to the router and ran the file that produced the Shapeoko logo. Over the last couple of days I have added the JTech 4,2W laser and tested that. I am now a happy bunny and the whole assembly took less than one week.

Is it as convenient to assemble as a Snapmaker? Absolutely not. The difference is the multiple boxes of multiple bits and pieces as opposed to my assembly of a Snapmaker 1 in 20 minutes. I now have a decent work area rather than the 3.5 inches square of SM1. The 16 x 16 x 3 is a major improvement and the reason I changed to a full sized machine.

I am still adding bits to the library of Carbide Create Pro and Carbide Motion is a dream to use. I m using Lightburn for the laser and there is no finer software in my opinion.

This post would be nothing without pix so as usual… some pix.

First is a 6 x 3.5 inch owl made with the JTech 4.2W laser. Power was 100% at a distance of 3.175mm from the workpiece. Speed was 2540 mm per minute. (I have some video footage being processed right now, showing the beast in action. The quality is impressive with no scorching evident. The lines are finely focussed and the magnetic mounting is ultra secure. The fan on top of the laser housing helps with keeping everything cool.

This shot is taken from the rear of the X axis to show the control box and the wiring running into it.

The brush is attached by magnets to the ‘Sweepy’ vacuum adapter and the vacuum hose is shown attached to that.

The tram plate is attached to the Z axis and is interesting. The top left hole is normal sizes and the other three holes are oversized. This makes tramming very easy because the whole mount may be rotated by a millimetre either way. This is one huge and solid carriage with some of the construction in 1/4 plate steel.

A side view of the X axis rail confirms the construction material thickness of the Z axis carriage.

Another view of the Z axis showing the router mount.

I mentioned the extrusions rails having 5mm thick walls… here is the evidence.

Control box and wiring from stepper motors

The initial start up logo written in sharpie ink on the baseboard after construction was completed.

Close image of Sharpie logo.

All in all the machine is very high quality, beautifully made and if I can assemble one, anyone can do it. The laser just added a whole new dimension to the machine. It is really efficient and super effective. Would I recommend a Shapeoko to a person with limited funds? (I could not afford for them to waste money on my recommendation) Yes, I would say absolutely yes! They have just announced a Shapeoko Pro model with Ballscrews rather than belts. The belts appear to work to an accuracy of 0.001 with careful set up. I would suggest that the ballscrews would do that in an easier manner.

The forum is super active and on my first posting, I ‘met’ 5 members of the Carbide 3D staff. All of my questions were answered immediately and I received a large e-book guide on issues when using the machine. There was a full 31 page assembly guide and it was great to be able to ask questions of people in the forum when I was unsure. I had my hand held every step of the way. I am very pleased with my purchases.

forum is: https://community.carbide3d.com/

Laser working…

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My machine was sent from Heerlen NL

Wow @jepho… thanks a lot for the thorough walkthrough of your experience with the Carbide 3D. I’ll definitely take a closer look at that. It looks like you’re using the Makita router instead of the router that comes along with the Carbide. Is the Makita better?

Thanks a lot for your input @eh9. Seems like I stumbled onto the right forum for these kind of questions :slightly_smiling_face:.

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Carbide’s router is copy of the Makita router. In the USA it has another 2,000 RPM over the Makita’s 10,000 ~ 30,000 RPM. The Carbide model is only available in 110v. As far as I know it is not supplied in Europe. The other common option a DeWALT model. It has a speed of from 16,000 up to 27,000 RPM. If you look on the Carbide 3D forum you will find answers to all of your questions.

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I think the most correct answer is “it depends”. If cnc is your sole goal and you don’t care about 3D printing at all, then it would make more sense to go for a cnc machine. I’ve been doubting about that myself for quite a long time as well, but in the end went for the SM2.

I was doubting between a good 3D printer (Prusa i3 -range) which is just below 1000EUR, a cnc machine like the shapeoko, workbee or x-carve. (just google any of these names with “vs” to it and you’’ find plenty of other options as well → shapeoko vs …) Which cost as much or more than the SM2 A350. So in the end I went with the A350 because I didn’t want to spend 3000EUR on two devices “just to play with” when I can experiment with just one as well. And that has a decent bed size!

I’m awaiting my SM2 (it was shipped 2 weeks ago so I hope I’ll get it soon) so I can’t give you my personal advice or feedback yet. Only the considerations I’ve made myself. I think the SM2 is capable of doing a lot as well, but the speed will be limited and you won’t be able to mill aluminum for example (or at least not in a pleasant way) which you should be able to do with one of the dedicated cnc devices with a much stronger router.

And there are some nice projects that users in this forum have done already with the SM2, for example this one:

A lot of people are complaining about the software (Luban) as well, however if you want to do any decent or more complex 3D carving you need better cam software anyway. Even the guys from Carbide3D list it on their website. Their own software is good for 2D carvings, but if you want nice 3D carving, you’ll need other software anyway (Fusion 360, Meshcam, Estlcam etc). I did play around with the carbide 3d software and I can’t say I was impressed.

The most important exercise you should do for yourself is list some sample projects you would like to do and the versatility that you want to be able to do, see how much space you have (the SM2 is a relatively compact device compared to some other options), how much time you want to spend on those projects (If you do it for a living speed is important, if it’s a hobby it’s less critical) and obviously the budget you want to spend.

Taking those into account my personal conclusion was to go for the SM2 because I wanted to experiment with all those things and have some fun projects to do with my son and get him interested in the technology. And in that respect the SM2 came out on top for me.

Ask me again in a month if I’m still happy with that choice :wink:
But do know that there are also a lot of people very happy with their SM2. for example:

i agree, the SM2 is right for some people who want to play with all three functions and dont want to mess with the electronics or inner workings of CNCs (computer numerically controlled machines, not just milling :wink: ) i want to sell my SM2 and am already working on building an MPCNC, it can offer the same 3 in one if built correctly (really most CNCs can be any number of things, the most important aspect is rigidity). and it only costs about $500. but i enjoy playing with the machine far more then making stuff on it. so the SM2 is just not the right fit for me. i think a CNC machine is like a car, you have to find the right one for you! :slight_smile:

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Hi Bruno,

You and I had the exact same considerations machine wise and my thought process was shared with yours. I pulled the trigger back in March because my friend and I both got one This way, we’ve got each other if things go wrong. Between the two of us, our knowledge is adequate to feel there’s not a challenge we can’t over come.

In my video, it’s pretty obvious I have some linear gear slipping. I’m really curious to see how well Snapmaker deals with it via customer service. Honestly, they should just not be shipping them out in that state if they know that’s a thing. That said, it has not been catastrophic yet. I have no idea if it’ll stay within tolerance, get better, or get worse. Ask me again in a month. For now, I’m ok. We’ll see how it goes. I wish it wasn’t there at all. It a mile better than my Prusa MK2. For me, that’s enough.

As you say, with CNC it’s Fusion all the way. :smiley:

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Sorry I know its not important and don’t take this the wrong way but I have to tell you. There are no gears in the linear modules. There is a stepper moter connected to a lead screw (effectively a fancy threaded rod and nut) the sound your hearing is the stepper skipping.

Hi Atom,

That’s totally fair - I wasn’t being 100% spell it out clear. I should have said the stepper motor inside that linear rail but well, I’m lazy. :smiley: It’s good you clarify it for folks. Since it’s not like the Prusa MK2 with one belt moving the Y plate from the center, I’m assuming there are two belts and two motors, one inside each linear rail - hence me being lazy and saying linear gear aka the gears inside the linear module’s stepper motor. Actually, if you have ripped them down, you want to tell us all what it looks like inside? i was kind of curious when I saw I couldn’t see it how it was engineered inside. Know of a handy diagram? My guess is there’s one around the forum somewhere.

Thanks for making that dead obvious - feel free to also post a schematic for folks.

Lots of photos and links to video teardown:

-S

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Yes that is a good video. Also as far as I’m aware these are non geared motors. So there are no gears anywhere inside the linear rail. The clicking you here from inside the motor is the sound generated as the coils switch polarities and the magnets on the shaft jump back into alignment with them because they can’t move to the next coil like they are supposed to.
See this link on how stepper motors work.
https://youtu.be/eyqwLiowZiU