Findings and solution for the Snapmaker J1 clogging problem

You are lost too. Hope your mathematics are with you :joy::sweat_smile:

All right and well said. I do not object to these bare facts being mentioned but the ongoing evangelism for the Bambu. That is a fine printer of its own right, agreed, but telling us once and how happy he is with his decision would have been enough. This is a Snapmaker J1 forum here and whoever is here will rather try to find answers for the J1 or move again.

Just my 0.02$.

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All right, cool. I have to admit that the word evangelism seems correct. That made me laugh :laughing:

@Miq19 Exactly. I definitely do intend not defend the mistakes Snapmaker made and IMHO still makes by not providing a decent hardware solution for the issues we all know instead of the software tricks.

But what angered me was the… well, I cannot find better words than your ā€œBambu evanglismā€ for that :wink: . My mistake was that by putting these into the correct relation to make possible newbies reading that stuff understand it a little better, I did not take enough care and fed the troll… :roll_eyes:

Ive had a few run ins with ā€œclogingā€. Turns out the clogging was not due to anything with the hotend but with the distance from the bed to nozzle. It was too close. (I fixed bed level issues with left over bed springs supporting left and right rear of plate) After realizing this, every time I do the bed leveling, I watch the initial layers of my next print. You can tell from that if the bed is too close to the nozzle and youll hear the extruder clicking. If those are present lower the bed some until it goes away.
I agree the Bambu Labs printers are amaizing. I have a friend who has one. It still has its issue though. Just go look at their website and Facebook forums. Granted the issues are not a much as the J1 but they are there. My same friend also has a $6000 Raise3D printer that has all kinds of issues. And since he bought the most expensive package for his printer with them and not the less expensive one, he has to pay another $1500 for the hotends that would let him print at Bambu or J1 speeds.
So yes this isnt a ā€œprint out of the box printer with no issuesā€ kind of printer but it didn’t cost $6000. The best thing about the J1 though is all of us on these forums helping each other out with issues.
I wont lie, when Bambu comes out with a bigger printer Ill add it to my collection, Im at 6 now. But ill keep tweeking the J1, try to add a ERCF to each head and see what happens.

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Have you received your AP3X nozzle meanwhile?
Did I understand right that the AP3X nozzle fits into the stock heaterblock and it is longer than the Bondtech CHT nozzle, which makes the mod copperhead heatbreak with AP3X nozzle closer in overall height to the stock hotend?
Does it work for you?

@i3sven @Mechanikus @MrBean @SnapSnap @nnowak @TAGN @naPS @Plukh Hi J1 owners, thank you for your active feedback. I wanted to take a moment to update you on some recent developments with the new hot end. We understand that some users have been experiencing clogging issues, and we are actively working to address this.

The latest sample parts of the new hot end will arrive in our R&D lab, and we will be assembling them for a series of tests next week. The new design will use a new assembly process, which is an important step that we need to verify. We are making some key changes to the new hot end. These include:

  • Not using the PTFE/Teflon tube to avoid the assembly gap caused by the PTFE tube length and end face beveling problem, which can result in filament leakage.

  • Using an all-metal heat break and setting higher requirements for the inner wall roughness.

  • Cancelling the thread assembly everywhere (heat sink, heat break, heat block, nozzle) and adopting a new design for the core components to improve thermal conductivity and eliminate filament leakage at thread fit.

  • Optimizing the structure of the heat block, appropriately increasing the length of the melting zone, and improving the extrusion flow.

  • Replacing the current ordinary brass nozzle with an upgraded nozzle, such as a hardened steel nozzle.

We appreciate your patience and support as we work to improve the user experience of J1. And I will keep you updated on the progress of these changes.

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Thank you very much @Jade for your continuing efforts!

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Thank you so much for the update and your continued work on this issue.

While I do not have the equipment to test this fully, I believe the primary issue is the length of the neck on the current heatbreak. Instead of a sharp cutoff between the hot side and cold side, I believe this extended neck length produces a large area in the heatbreak that is warm enough to soften the filament, but not warm enough to extrude.

Instead of a new, custom solution, I would really prefer that an existing standard was adopted for the hotend. There are already several existing hotend systems out there that just ā€œworkā€ and have a broad ecosystem of support from multiple manufacturers and are undergoing continued improvement. Some of the new high-flow nozzles with multiple internal bores are a perfect example. These new high-flow nozzles are a drop in replacement on many existing systems.

If I had to pick a favorite, a slightly modified heatsink that would accommodate the Revo system would be my top choice. A Revo compatible heatsink would also accommodate a Hermera heatbreak and would allow reuse of the entire existing hotend.

I think the J1 is a truly great printer and it has printed many, many kilograms of Nylon parts for me with fantastic quality. It is only when I need to print with silk PLA that I need to use a different printer. Again, thank you all so much for your continued work on this matter.

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Thanks a lot for the update @Jade !

While I personally prefer usage of open components and am totally happy with my hotends as they are now, it will be really great to have an out-of-the-box solution that works for all users and brings the J1 to its full potential without the need to rework things.

I am looking forward to see what you will present :slight_smile:

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Would also be happy if the problem with the hotends is solved!

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Hi Jade,
good that Snapmaker reacts to the problem with an extensive re-design. This definitely makes more sense than just modifying one symtom.
Since I’m already waiting several months for my ordered Hotends with 0.2mm, I hope of course that these are then already of new variety. If not - I expect an exchange by you.
However, like Mechanikus, I would also prefer to be able to install 3rd party elements, which will probably not be possible with threadless parts, e.g. nozzles?

As nozzles I would also not recommend steel nozzles, because then always 10-15 ° C higher temperatures than the brass nozzles would be required. This will cause confusion for some users, since the brass nozzles exist in parallel. Better tu use then plated copper nozzles - definitely best gliding properties and resistant to abrasive filaments.

I have recently tried a filament oiler that applies some vegetable oil to the filament via a sponge as it feeds. That has helped the clogging problem, combined with better PTFE tubing and changing the filament spool holder with one that uses bearings to make the spool turn smoother.
Just FYI.

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Yes! I’ve been pointing this out, but seems people here seem to like clogging toolheads more than they like filament oilers :slightly_smiling_face:. I designed one of those about a month ago. It’s on thingiverse:

Hi, everyone,

At the end of April I became the happy owner of Snapmaker J1. While printing parts in ABS and ASA I was very very happy with performance of the printer. Than I had to switch over to PLA for larger order and being experienced user of Prusa MK3S+ I was just about to continue my still successful journey with J1. After few minutes of printing I recognized something was wrong - extruder was clicking and after some underextrusion filament flow was stopped at all. New experience to me indeed as before that I never had any heat creep experience. There was no way I could continue printing with PLA I had for the purpose.
Searching for a cure I came down here and picked up concept by @Mechanikus and @i3sven team (as a new user I can not mention more than two) using Copperhead MK8 heat break. As I had some copper on hands, I decided to try all-copper hotend and re-designed heatsink as well, making its surface larger - more fins. So I added E3D V6 plated copper heat block and plated copper MK8 nozzle by Brozzl. This set has been chosen to maintain original dimensions of hotend. So copper spacer is about 9mm long.

Here are new parts for J1 extruder:

There are some things to be improved in this design for sure but it was made fast and at least now I can print PLA without any problems all day long and extruder clogs are gone completely. Longest print so far has been 12 hours with both extruders engaged in Duplication mode and totally over 20 kg of different PLA has been molten. Sorry, have not tried silky one yet!

Increased mass of hotend assembly is not good - from stock 68 g to 106 g for my all-copper version. Need to be careful with accelerations not to kill belts and steppers too early. For the moment I have limited myself to 2500 mm/s2 as I need to print more than to push limits.

So a little improving cooling at the beginning of cold part of heat break solved particular problem for me.

As it has been admitted here in forum, XY alignment issue with this MK8 nozzle is present on the right extruder. With almost perfect Z alignment I still have about 0.15-0.20 mm offset on X and Y. Not good - visible on smooth outer surface of printed parts. I hope to address it somewhen later.

Don’t judge me too tough - this is my first post at any forum ever!

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@Karass3D Wow! That heat sink is really great - congratulations!! If you happen to have clogging issues with that setup, I would recommend to try a shorter spacer though. It is still unsure the heatbreak protruding out of the heat sink might cause issues.

I changed the heat blocks to copper variants as well, but that happened primarily because I like the nickel plated optics better than the plain brass of the original ones. My printer worked fine with the original ones as well.

@Rahn @Rwide I personally don’t really like filament oilers on a printer that can be used for printing above 300°C, hence my ignorance of corresponding suggestions. At least for pans, you usually say AFAIK this might break the coating of polimerised oil that you want to get with such a thing. And I am not to keen about having the smell of that in the room with the printer.

@Mechanikus Thank you for comment! I absolutely agree - I was a bit afraid to see cold part of heat break protruding out 4mm but I let it remain as is and gave it a try. It worked and still works for PLA+ I have to process now (heat conductivity of copper serves here perfectly) but might not work for silky PLA and in fact for every filament having die swell. I have some of such PLA by me too but will try somewhen later.

Here is a picture of assembled hotend I am using currently now for both sides.

Positive thing with copper heat block - it keeps temperature more stable and warms up 30% faster than stock ones.

Sweet! Thanks @Jade !!!

I’ve actually had quite a bit of success printing with the J1 lately - lots of TPU parts. After about 12 hours of printing, I need to give the thing a break, or else it will start clicking and skipping extruder steps. If I let it cool down for a couple of hours, it’s just fine.

Can’t wait to see what the new hot ends do. Along with adjusting the components related to the heat break, are there any plans to adapt the cooling fan duct to hit the part being printed from the ā€˜front’ of the machine as well? The back and sides are now covered with the auxiliary parts fan.

@Jade Any updates on the new hotends? I continue to be completely unable to print with PLA without jamming, and ABS still jams often enough that I can’t rely on it. When it’s working properly, the printer is pretty great. I just can’t do any production work on it because it won’t reliably print.

Any updates on the new hotends? I continue to be completely unable to print with PLA without jamming, and ABS still jams often enough that I can’t rely on it. When it’s working properly, the printer is pretty great. I just can’t do any production work on it because it won’t reliably print.

My jamming / clogging issues have been solved by bumping up the hotend temperature. For whatever reason I have to keep my left extruder 10°C hotter than the right extruder with the same material to keep it from clogging. Weird, eh?