SnapMaker is killing this product, by overpricing parts and upgrades

[edf]

@Atom

I hope you can find a good way of mounting it.

It occurred to me that the heated bed is magnetic, and I have lots of ferrous material in the shop. The torque on the bed should be pretty low, so I should be able to hold it in place with some steel bar. As a bonus, the steel frame should transmit additional heat to the glass bed, given sufficient warmup time.

First, low-tek version is just some 3/4" weld steel, roughly same height as the glass bed:

I drilled 2mm holes and made some copper clamps to hold the glass bed in place. I just happened to have some lengths of copper bar from an Online Metals protobox that were going to waste, and it’s easy to shape copper with a file if need be. I don’t have the clamps on yet (and may not even need them) because…

I stuck the standard sheet on top. The steel conducts enough magnetic force to hold it in place, but I used to magnets to sandwich the steel bar and the spring steel sheet to the bed. I can do calibration, remove the sheet before setting the Z offset, and be done with it … I hope.

Fallback plans (besides the clamps) in case the glass moves too much:

• add some side pieces (could swear I had weld steel that size…)

• more stronger magnets

• drill the steel bar so that it can bolt to the mounting holes - one of the bars will have to use a short slot so the bars can be snugged up against the glass

• weld tabs at the corners of the steel bar so that the glass plate registers against resulting corners

Realistically, I’ll probaby stop after more-stronger-magnets and go back to the drawing board.

EDIT: definitely going to drill the front bar to bolt it to the heated bed. When homing with the magnet-sandwich removed, the bar slid around because the bed is so warped, the only point of contact is the middle. Now this bar ain’t precision ground or nuthing, but I slipped a 0.175 feeler gage under it at both corners, and that just ain’t right. On the plus side, maybe the steel will pull the bed out of warp

OK, end digression. I know there’s a glass-bed frame somewhere on the forum that I should be posting this in, instead

[Atom]

You may be over thinking it. The poors on the Glas bed are on both sides. When I put my glass bed on the magnet film that came on my E3 pro(like the SM2 it came with a flexible magnetic build plate, but rather than using a few magnets embedded in the bed frame like the sm2 they used a full magnetic sheet on top of the rigid frame), and heat it up the Glas bed sticks to the magnet film with enough force that I would break the Glas trying to move it before it cools… my point is if you get a flexible soft plastic sheet. You may be able to screw that down using the normal bed screws and just throw the Glas bed on top and not have it move a fraction of a millimeter while running. I will take some pictures tonight when I get home.

[edf]

Thanks, I’ll look into that. I thought the pores were only one side and so I must have left the protective film on the rear face. That makes the glass pretty slippery, let me tell you. The biggest problem with my setup above is that the steel pieces don’t hold firmly to the bed because the bed warps away from them, limiting the number of magnets that hold the steel. I got a workable temporary solution and experimented with different manual calibration methods. I know there’s an entire thread on it.

[Atom]

So I have taken a couple photos of my ender bed. It’s an aluminum build plate with some kind of magnetic sticker sheet stuck on top. That sheet has a polyurethane like film on the top. The underside of my Glas bed is smooth (without the texture that the print side has). And when I place the bed on it slides around easily. I then put 2 binderclips to hold it right where I want it while the printer turns on, homes and heats the bed. Once heated to 70c I can take the clips off and the glass bed will not budge. Even after cooling I have to pry at the bed before it comes off.

Thinking about it. I think what’s happening is that both the Glass and the sheet are so perfectly smooth that when they are heated and pressed together(by the binder clips) the press out all the air between them after it cools I end with a strong negative pressure between the bed and the glass and atmospheric pressure holds the bed in place. That is until I take a tool and force it between the glass and the bed, this let’s air in and releases the glass plate.

[brent113]

I’ve read mixed things online about aluminum build plates, what’s your experience been with the various types?

[TomM]

I’m grateful for the “deep expert” customers who got Snapmaker started, and I see that some may not be happy with Snapmaker’s business model. Fortunately, there’s a growing customer base for Snapmaker (of which I am a part) with multiple-unit purchasing power: high school technology and engineering fab labs (educational rapid prototyping).

School boards and parents want ‘the best’ for their children, where ‘the best’ doesn’t necessarily mean absolutely top-quality finished products, but rather good quality products for the sake of learning how to design, prototype, redesign, etc.; leading to careers in engineering or technical work. Snapmaker is perfect for high school teachers tasked with spending school district money with the expectation that they, other staff, and most importantly students will be up and running and successful within a week or so after assembling the machines.

We just picked up four F350s (with a target total of twelve; six with enclosures and “the works”), because no other product on the market today gave me the confidence to purchase, assemble, calibrate/configure and “launch” almost $5k of gear at my school “knowing” that I can do it, and believing that my students and less-savvy colleagues can catch on fast.

The marketing of the machines, including their all metal design, polished instructions and large global community (which has already ‘schooled me on’ PETG) was indispensable in persuading my administrators that this product is a wise investment (e.g. sufficiently capable, durable, expandable & upgradable).

While perhaps Snapmaker may not yet be considered the ‘best’ in any one machine category, I credit Snapmaker with creating a paradigm shift that will ripple forward in the decades to come for our STEM program. We have a $9k 30W Epilog CO2 laser, and it cuts a single small truss model out of 1/8" birchwood in a minute flat, but I’ll be picking up multiple $400 10W Snapmaker laser modules soon and will be happy for students to wait an extra two minutes for their trusses (with specialized eye protection and enclosures)!

(Old paradigm) One “tech” teacher buys and 'runs top-of-the-line laser, CNC and other 'gear involving an assortment of legacy/“OG” software, while others (including students) typically don’t have time or can’t be trusted to master these and hence rely on the lone expert. Machine failure can mean suspending or cancelling a major student project.

(New paradigm) Many teachers and students of different ability and interest levels relatively quickly learn the Snapmaker platform and software suite, ‘graduating to’ greater depth at the college or technical school level (or with one’s own money / serious hobby). Failure of large equipment will no longer be a potential issue, because we’ll have multiple reconfigurable Snapmaker stations to handle any type of rapid prototyping any student needs.

Thank you Snapmaker for the incredible value you have created for me and for our school community. I (and my current and future students and colleagues) are on board for the long haul!

Sincerely,

Tom

[pugs]

It is a very good educational platform Tom, sounds like it suits your needs!

I hope SM elevated your support level

Pug

[Atom]

I trust them as an underbed, I prefer the solid sheets over the cast aluminum like SM2 has. My only issue is that they can warp a little. But if you have somthing like a glass bed on top, and bed leveling you effectively remove the the issue. It’s a great option for machines like SM2 and the ender 3 where the bed needs to be light weight because it moves. Though to be honest I haven’t had much experience with other bed types.

[sdj544]

@TomM

(with specialized eye protection and enclosures)!

Hopefully the enclosures and eye protection you’re using isn’t just SM. Their enclosure does not use certified acrylic and they’ve never been forthright in answering questions about what testing has been done on it and what protection it does provide. And that was with the 1.6 laser. An enclosure won’t provide as good protection as goggles/glasses and should be considered secondary protection. Fortunately they are now shipping the appropriate amber eyewear that has certification.
-S

[kaitzu]

Great to see new enthusiasts. I chose the Snapmaker for the many of the same reasons. As a funny side note, it was my daughter’s simple 7th grade school project that woke my interest into 3d printing. I suddenly saw a lot of possibilities and realised thats a toy I didn’t yet have.

Having used the Snapmaker quite a lot for a year now, I have realised it is far from the mature product they promise in their marketing. It’s not a question of whether it is “the best” (that depends on one’s specific needs), it is the lack quality control and support, especially with their software. Every new firmware update so far (including the latest) has introduced new issues and surprises. While they are frustrating for a hobbyist, I can imagine what it would be like running into those in front of a full class waiting for their turn… To hopefully help you avoid going through the same frustrations I’ll give you a few tips or things to consider.

Until the product matures and at some point hopefully works as intended, you will need someone who is the expert. Not for teaching student, but for supporting your teachers and maintaining a working fleet. Someone who

• Uses it more and can support the teachers. Who knows what what it is capable of, but also what it is not (regardless of marketing claims).
• Has the possibility and time to support the teachers, can solve issues and keep them in safe waters. To borrow your terminology, this is unfortunately a lot more old paradigm than you may think.
• Has time to follow these forums and knows all the issues that the latest luban/firmwares either fixes or introduces.

Not doing that will very quicly cause unexpected situations in the class, ultimately leading to your teachers becoming frustrated and avoiding it. If enthusiasts can become frustrated to the point they give up, then less entusiastic people can too.

The Snapmaker can certainly be a good teaching tool as long as you are on top of things in order to avoid the multiutude of issues and only use its strengths. Be very careful with updates and test them out before implementing them. Invest 10$/€ in a good quality nozzle and voila, you suddenly no longer have any time consuming issues with clogging, while also having less first layer adhesion issues. Strictly standardize how it is used (e.g. right now do NOT touch z-offset before starting the print, unless you want to spend hours trying to figure out how it can be correctly calibrated again). Based on other threads, the latest firmware seems to have introduced issues to thelaser, and so on.

Hopefully you get some value from this. You’ve already made your commitment and hopefully you can keep your enthusiasm, but you may need to adjust your expectations to a harsher reality in order not to run into too many disappoinments.

[scyto]

@sdj544

I will never turn down a pint of Guinness, as long as it’s a proper pour!

so you only drink it Dublin, right?

[scyto]

@kaitzu

I have realised it is far from the mature product they promise in their marketing.

This is the key point i think to the debates, we have folks who bought on Kickstarter who knew what they were getting into - an experiment. There are other folks who bought a full retail price expecting a hassle free experience. Both perspectives are valid.

[sdj544]

@scyto

so you only drink it Dublin, right?

Ideally, but beggars can’t be choosers.
Finally got to go Dublin just before covid.
Can’t wait to get back there again.

-S

[JustAHobbyist]

As a person who just learned to spell CNC roughly a week ago and also has more than $2000 in lightbulbs in my house (look up LIFX) I didn’t even flinch at the price. I bought it all and some extras. Maybe when I actually know what I am doing I’ll look back and say tbanks was right but as for now I’ve spent far more for a whole lot less. This was the perfect unit for the space I was willing to give it.

[mrgardiner]

Here is a recent reddit post about a possible 5.5 W laser drop in replacement for the 1.6 W laser.

No details yet, they mentioned the auto focus and cutting works well. The engraving version is Ortur, Laser Master 2, S2 24V. LU2-4 SF. It runs about $170 with generic search

ORTUR Laser Master 2 S2 24V Laser Engraver Machine

(LU2-2, LU2-4 SF engraving, LU2-4 LF cutting (air cooling nozzle)
“Lengthen the wires on the Ortur LU2-4 diode and swap out the JST”

[jcknox]

Really interested in this project, especially since Ortur has a 10w module that works very much like the Snapmaker version for half the price.